Well, it seems some of you get what I’m trying to say, some still don’t. When I say that the final tone is a product of the gear more than the player, it’s not because of my playing that I’ve come to this conclusion. Other players, some far better than I and some the same or worse have played through my gear. Of course each players individuality come through but the actual "sound" coming out the speakers is still the same. I’m talking sound quality not the musicality of what’s being played, Pete. For example, my Hamer sounds good through every amp I have played it on, my strat sounds good on some amps only. This is a result of the gear, not the player. The whole thing has started because I wanted a Marshall to play my Les Paul through. I am searching for a classic "Gibson into a Marshall" sound, is this possible with gear only? or do I need to become a virtuostic guitar god to get the tone from my magical fingers? Thanks for all your opinions so far, DEMENTED
Hi, I remember the saying, good player makes bad gear sound good. Bad player makes good gear sound bad. I think there is some truth in this. Tony – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Well, it seems some of you get what I’m trying to say, some still don’t. When I > say that the final tone is a product of the gear more than the player, it’s not > because of my playing that I’ve come to this conclusion. Other players, some > far better than I and some the same or worse have played through my gear. Of > course each players individuality come through but the actual "sound" coming > out the speakers is still the same. I’m talking sound quality not the > musicality of what’s being played, Pete. For example, my Hamer sounds good > through every amp I have played it on, my strat sounds good on some amps only. > This is a result of the gear, not the player. The whole thing has started > because I wanted a Marshall to play my Les Paul through. I am searching for a > classic "Gibson into a Marshall" sound, is this possible with gear only? or do > I need to become a virtuostic guitar god to get the tone from my magical > fingers? > Thanks for all your opinions so far, DEMENTED
> I am searching for a > classic "Gibson into a Marshall" sound, is this possible with gear only? or do > I need to become a virtuostic guitar god to get the tone from my magical > fingers?
Yes, I’m afraid it’s all voodoo. Sorry… 
— Gary Gerhart www.GerhartAmps.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well, it seems some of you get what I’m trying to say, some still don’t. When I > say that the final tone is a product of the gear more than the player, it’s not > because of my playing that I’ve come to this conclusion. Other players, some > far better than I and some the same or worse have played through my gear. Of > course each players individuality come through but the actual "sound" coming > out the speakers is still the same. I’m talking sound quality not the > musicality of what’s being played, Pete. For example, my Hamer sounds good > through every amp I have played it on, my strat sounds good on some amps only. > This is a result of the gear, not the player. The whole thing has started > because I wanted a Marshall to play my Les Paul through. I am searching for a > classic "Gibson into a Marshall" sound, is this possible with gear only? or do > I need to become a virtuostic guitar god to get the tone from my magical > fingers? > Thanks for all your opinions so far, DEMENTED
Hang in there, you’ll get it. I recommend a weekend with the classic rock headphones on. Listen to Bad Company, Some Ace Frehley, and some Peter Frampton. Don’t forget Thin Lizzy. My idea of classic LP thru Marshall sound is mostly what you’d find on an 8-Track tape from the 70s. That’s why I keep so many of them around 8^) winnard winnard
>Well, it seems some of you get what I’m trying to say, some still don’t. When I >say that the final tone is a product of the gear more than the player, it’s not >because of my playing that I’ve come to this conclusion. Other players, some >far better than I and some the same or worse have played through my gear. Of >course each players individuality come through but the actual "sound" coming >out the speakers is still the same. I’m talking sound quality not the >musicality of what’s being played, Pete. For example, my Hamer sounds good >through every amp I have played it on, my strat sounds good on some amps only. >This is a result of the gear, not the player. The whole thing has started >because I wanted a Marshall to play my Les Paul through. I am searching for a >classic "Gibson into a Marshall" sound, is this possible with gear only? or do >I need to become a virtuostic guitar god to get the tone from my magical >fingers? >Thanks for all your opinions so far, DEMENTED
Evidently you’re not understanding what I say. I don’t recall saying anything about musical ability. I have almost no musical knowledge myself. I know major and minor scales when I hear them, and when I’m holding a guitar, I know what key a song is in pretty damn fast. This ain’t about that. Pick up your damn guitar, plug it into the amp you’re using, and that’s the sound you have today. Learn to work with the sound you have today. It’s not like I didn’t just buy a bunch of Telecaster parts so I could piece together another guitar. But it’s not like I’m hoping that guitar will hold some sort of magical key to a sound I haven’t been able to get. Why the hell would it do that. Today I played my butchered hotrod Tele that I’ve had for a while through the SC120 Doug build. It worked great. Different than with my Les Paul through that amp, but different is different, not better or worse. You have to work with what you have in your hands, because wishing it was something else won’t do shit for you. Pete
Demented, you’ll never get that Marshall sound out of your 2205. It had it’s balls removed on the assembly line. You’ll never be happy. Don’t throw any more effort or money into trying to make it into something it will never be. Get rid of it. This is coming from someone who has been there, and would have really appreciated 12 years ago the information everyone has been trying to give you over the past few months. Kerry
(snip) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> because I wanted a Marshall to play my Les Paul through. I am searching for a > classic "Gibson into a Marshall" sound, is this possible with gear only? or do > I need to become a virtuostic guitar god to get the tone from my magical > fingers? > Thanks for all your opinions so far, DEMENTED
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well, it seems some of you get what I’m trying to say, some still don’t. When I > say that the final tone is a product of the gear more than the player, it’s not > because of my playing that I’ve come to this conclusion. Other players, some > far better than I and some the same or worse have played through my gear. Of > course each players individuality come through but the actual "sound" coming > out the speakers is still the same. I’m talking sound quality not the > musicality of what’s being played, Pete. For example, my Hamer sounds good > through every amp I have played it on, my strat sounds good on some amps only. > This is a result of the gear, not the player. The whole thing has started > because I wanted a Marshall to play my Les Paul through. I am searching for a > classic "Gibson into a Marshall" sound, is this possible with gear only? or do > I need to become a virtuostic guitar god to get the tone from my magical > fingers? > Thanks for all your opinions so far, DEMENTED
DUDE!!! Slow down! Enough Mtn. Dew! Don’t get rid of the amp yet! See if the following is of any help; Lets say that you decide that tomorrow you want to be a sculptor, and you have some artistic talent (and you are sure you do),but you have never sculpted before…. you have decided that you want to use a chain saw and whittle on logs to make beautiful carvings in a style that is already in your vision…..Okay, cool!…..Do you know what type of logs will work best for your vision? Is it important yet? You’ll also need a saw….What kind? Is it important yet? Well, you’ll have to start some where…..Get a decent saw and become familiar with it, and it’s limits (might be that it takes more than one saw to do it, and you need both to get there). Get familiar with types of wood and their limits also. Then and only then, are you ready to ruin logs to learn your craft. Skilled hands alone won’t do it alone! A quiver of fine saws won’t do it alone! Working with the wrong wood won’t do it! Can you see any relationship between this and the elusive TONE….. Cheers, robert
> I am searching for a > classic "Gibson into a Marshall" sound, is this possible with gear only?
You mean, is this gear a requirement for this sound? Yes. > or do > I need to become a virtuostic guitar god to get the tone from my magical > fingers?
[...sigh...] …Um….no….no, you don’t.
I think every different set-up has it’s own sound capabilities and his own shortcommings… I think one should just get familiar with the amp and the guitar he’s playing and that’s it. Every amp has a kind of magic, it’s up to the player to get that magic though the speakers. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well, it seems some of you get what I’m trying to say, some still don’t. When I > say that the final tone is a product of the gear more than the player, it’s not > because of my playing that I’ve come to this conclusion. Other players, some > far better than I and some the same or worse have played through my gear. Of > course each players individuality come through but the actual "sound" coming > out the speakers is still the same. I’m talking sound quality not the > musicality of what’s being played, Pete. For example, my Hamer sounds good > through every amp I have played it on, my strat sounds good on some amps only. > This is a result of the gear, not the player. The whole thing has started > because I wanted a Marshall to play my Les Paul through. I am searching for a > classic "Gibson into a Marshall" sound, is this possible with gear only? or do > I need to become a virtuostic guitar god to get the tone from my magical > fingers? > Thanks for all your opinions so far, DEMENTED
Tone is almost as misused a term as "soul". I don’t care how bad a player you are, you hit a chord on anyone’s rig and it’s going to have a similar sound. It’s the inflections, nuances and such that separate Albert King from Stevie Ray Vaughan, Buddy Guy from Jimi Hendrix, SRV from Kenny Wayne Shepherd and so on and so forth. If you want to hear a characteristic sound, find two players that use that same equipment, for example Jimi Hendrix and Jimmy Page through a Marshall Super Lead, and pay enough attention to hear the similarities in the tones. Look at it this way, if gear meant shit why would anyone care what they were playing through? Hope that helps dude..
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well, it seems some of you get what I’m trying to say, some still don’t. When I > say that the final tone is a product of the gear more than the player, it’s not > because of my playing that I’ve come to this conclusion. Other players, some > far better than I and some the same or worse have played through my gear. Of > course each players individuality come through but the actual "sound" coming > out the speakers is still the same. I’m talking sound quality not the > musicality of what’s being played, Pete. For example, my Hamer sounds good > through every amp I have played it on, my strat sounds good on some amps only. > This is a result of the gear, not the player. The whole thing has started > because I wanted a Marshall to play my Les Paul through. I am searching for a > classic "Gibson into a Marshall" sound, is this possible with gear only? or do > I need to become a virtuostic guitar god to get the tone from my magical > fingers? > Thanks for all your opinions so far, DEMENTED
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> Look at it this way, if gear meant shit why would anyone care what they were > playing through?
Look at it every way, If it didn’t matter who was playing the gear, than anyone could play it …… who sets the bar now? or is it …. what? hmmmmmm ? Comparing the importance of limiting factors such as these, is an exercise in futility, It is a flawed comparison, ….. equipment can be purchased. and "big ears" are earned (with a capital "L") one of the two is priceless. ….. comparisons ? IMPORTANCE ? dw
> > Look at it this way, if gear meant shit why would anyone care what they were > playing through? > Look at it every way, > If it didn’t matter who was playing the gear, than anyone could play it
…… Not to be defensive but did you read my entire post or just that line? I spoke nothing of the relative importance of either gear or technique anywhere in my post. I simply stated that gear matters. I said that two people using the same gear will have certain similarities in their tone, those are the characteristics of the amp. I said that what separates Joe Schmoe from Jimmy Page are the nuances, inflections and so on, so on being technique, chops, feel, knowledge, and so on. By reading the rest of your post, I honestly think we agree hear and you misinterpreted what I was saying. Ben http://www.newsgroups.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–= Over 100,000 Newsgroups – Ulimited Fast Downloads – 19 Servers =—–
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Look at it this way, if gear meant shit why would anyone care what they > were > > playing through? > Look at it every way, > If it didn’t matter who was playing the gear, than anyone could play it > …… > Not to be defensive but did you read my entire post or just that line?
kit and kaboodle …. > I > spoke nothing of the relative importance of either gear or technique > anywhere in my post. I simply stated that gear matters.
I didn’t dispute this. > I said that two > people using the same gear will have certain similarities in their tone, > those are the characteristics of the amp.
I didn’t dispute this. > I said that what separates Joe > Schmoe from Jimmy Page are the nuances, inflections and so on, so on being > technique, chops, feel, knowledge, and so on.
I didn’t dispute this. > By reading the rest of your > post, I honestly think we agree
I didn’t dispute this. > hear
(sic) > and you misinterpreted what I was > saying.
How? apparently we agree ….. I still think the question is flawed …… what’s more important in a car ? engine size ? ….. or gas? dig? dw "What do you get when you cross a duck?" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ben > http://www.newsgroups.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > —–= Over 100,000 Newsgroups – Ulimited Fast Downloads – 19 Servers =—–
> > hear > (sic)
Hey man, check your post. You said "than" when you meant "then." I didn’t call _you_ on it. 
> and you misinterpreted what I was > saying. > How?
OK, let me take that back. *I* misinterpreted *your* reply. I agree with you completely. It’s a flawed question. The guy asking this will understand that sooner or later but for what he’s asking I think it’s best to just say, "Yes, dude, gear matters." It will just take time for him to learn for himself that the best answer to that question is "Yes, of course gear matters. But all aspects of the way you play matter a TON more." If he has to ask this, more than once at that, is he really going to understand it at this point? This question is just as flawed as all the stupid "Best guitarist of all time" "Best album of all time" questions. Yeah they’re fun to say, "OK, Joe Blow likes this album, I do too, I can relate to Joe Blow." But in all reality how _do_ you gauge "best of?" Ben http://www.newsgroups.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–= Over 100,000 Newsgroups – Ulimited Fast Downloads – 19 Servers =—–
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > hear > (sic) >Hey man, check your post. You said "than" when you meant "then." I didn’t >call _you_ on it. > > and you misinterpreted what I was > > saying. > How? >OK, let me take that back. *I* misinterpreted *your* reply. >I agree with you completely. It’s a flawed question. The guy asking this >will understand that sooner or later but for what he’s asking I think it’s >best to just say, "Yes, dude, gear matters." It will just take time for him >to learn for himself that the best answer to that question is "Yes, of >course gear matters. But all aspects of the way you play matter a TON >more." If he has to ask this, more than once at that, is he really going to >understand it at this point?
You gotta wonder. >This question is just as flawed as all the stupid "Best guitarist of all >time" "Best album of all time" questions. Yeah they’re fun to say, "OK, >Joe Blow likes this album, I do too, I can relate to Joe Blow." But in all >reality how _do_ you gauge "best of?" >Ben
It’s a good think you two don’t disagree, or you’d really be at each other’s throats. "What do you get when you cross a duck?" Roadkill, I guess. Pete
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> > hear >> (sic) >Hey man, check your post. You said "than" when you meant "then." I didn’t >call _you_ on it. >> > and you misinterpreted what I was >> > saying. >> How? >OK, let me take that back. *I* misinterpreted *your* reply. >I agree with you completely. It’s a flawed question. The guy asking this >will understand that sooner or later but for what he’s asking I think it’s >best to just say, "Yes, dude, gear matters." It will just take time for him >to learn for himself that the best answer to that question is "Yes, of >course gear matters. But all aspects of the way you play matter a TON >more." If he has to ask this, more than once at that, is he really going to >understand it at this point? > You gotta wonder.
Yep. Gotta consider the source. He comes on here asking what everyone thinks of the 2205 and when everyone says "Don’t buy it, this is the problem with that amp." He buys it and _then_ proceeds to say "OK, how do I fix it? Preamp tubes?" Well, at least he’ll learn. Hopefully. It usually takes the hard way. You can count that by the number of amps I’ve had and sold and what’s left, which is probably the case with a lot of us here. >This question is just as flawed as all the stupid "Best guitarist of all >time" "Best album of all time" questions. Yeah they’re fun to say, "OK, >Joe Blow likes this album, I do too, I can relate to Joe Blow." But in all >reality how _do_ you gauge "best of?" >Ben > It’s a good think you two don’t disagree, or you’d really be at each > other’s throats.
I hope it doesn’t come off that way! I do respect drwow’s opinion. > "What do you get when you cross a duck?" Roadkill, I guess.
Heh. Ben http://www.newsgroups.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–= Over 100,000 Newsgroups – Ulimited Fast Downloads – 19 Servers =—–
> Yep. Gotta consider the source. He comes on here asking what everyone > thinks of the 2205 and when everyone says "Don’t buy it, this is the problem > with that amp." He buys it and _then_ proceeds to say "OK, how do I fix it? > Preamp tubes?" Well, at least he’ll learn. Hopefully. It usually takes > the hard way. You can count that by the number of amps I’ve had and sold > and what’s left, which is probably the case with a lot of us here.
Yes ! Mistakes should be treasured (only if remembered, and left un-repeated) > >This question is just as flawed as all the stupid "Best guitarist of all > >time" "Best album of all time" questions. Yeah they’re fun to say, "OK, > >Joe Blow likes this album, I do too, I can relate to Joe Blow." But in > all > >reality how _do_ you gauge "best of?"
With hard data, and as you obviously know ……. there ain’t any here. ….. Just a few indefinite buzzwords, swarming ’round an apples and oranges comparison. > >Ben > It’s a good think you two don’t disagree, or you’d really be at each > other’s throats. > I hope it doesn’t come off that way!
I don’t see it that way, my "attack" was against the "leading question" …. not any person(s) This said, and because of the nature of "music", and it’s expression ….. I still stand by the idea that tone cannot be bought, it must …. however, be paid for. > I do respect drwow’s opinion.
Thanks, Ben ……. please, when you have a moment to spare, explain it to me in terms others will understand, I will be forever indebted to you, LOL !!! > "What do you get when you cross a duck?" Roadkill, I guess. > Heh.
LOL!! ……. "I guess", That’s the real punchline, no? dw – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Yep. Gotta consider the source. He comes on here asking what everyone > thinks of the 2205 and when everyone says "Don’t buy it, this is the problem > with that amp." He buys it and _then_ proceeds to say "OK, how do I fix it? > Preamp tubes?" Well, at least he’ll learn. Hopefully. It usually takes > the hard way. You can count that by the number of amps I’ve had and sold > and what’s left, which is probably the case with a lot of us here. > Yes ! > Mistakes should be treasured (only if remembered, and left un-repeated)
Absolutely! It’s a good thing those eBay auctions are only in their system for 90 days. I’d hate someone going back through my history and saying "You bought that? Seriously?" > > >This question is just as flawed as all the stupid "Best guitarist of all > > >time" "Best album of all time" questions. Yeah they’re fun to say, "OK, > > >Joe Blow likes this album, I do too, I can relate to Joe Blow." But in > all > > >reality how _do_ you gauge "best of?" > With hard data, and as you obviously know ……. there ain’t any here.
Or anywhere! It’s one thing to put criteria on it but it’s still so subjective that those discussions always end up being somewhat funny to read. > ….. Just a few indefinite buzzwords, swarming ’round an apples and oranges > comparison.
Hehe, yep! > > >Ben > > It’s a good think you two don’t disagree, or you’d really be at each > > other’s throats. > I hope it doesn’t come off that way! > I don’t see it that way, my "attack" was against the "leading question" …. not > any person(s)
Yep, and that’s what I misinterpreted. > This said, and because of the nature of "music", and it’s expression ….. I > still stand by the idea that tone cannot be bought, it must …. however, be > paid for. > I do respect drwow’s opinion. > Thanks, Ben ……. please, when you have a moment to spare, explain it to me > in terms others will understand, I will be forever indebted to you, LOL
!!! Man, it was late. Meant to say: "I hope it doesn’t come off that way! Even though I misintrepreted the direction of his argument in his first reply, if we _had_ disagreed I didn’t mean for my response to him to sound harsh because I respect his opinion." Better? > > "What do you get when you cross a duck?" Roadkill, I guess. > Heh. > LOL!! ……. "I guess", > That’s the real punchline, no?
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I don’t see it that way, my "attack" was against the "leading question" > …. not > any person(s) > Yep, and that’s what I misinterpreted. > This said, and because of the nature of "music", and it’s expression ….. > I > still stand by the idea that tone cannot be bought, it must …. however, > be > paid for. > > I do respect drwow’s opinion. > Thanks, Ben ……. please, when you have a moment to spare, explain it > to me > in terms others will understand, I will be forever indebted to you, LOL > !!! > Man, it was late.
Really? I blame the moon – > Meant to say: "I hope it doesn’t come off that way!
I know ! > Even > though I misintrepreted the direction of his argument in his first reply, if > we _had_ disagreed I didn’t mean for my response to him to sound harsh > because I respect his opinion."
This is what I thought you said …. ;^) > Better?
heh heh .. I could STILL use that explaination, ……sometimes I am clumsy with my phrasing, and inarticulate with my "tone", I think I need new words with which to make my pitch ……typing louder doesn’t work, …….new keyboard mebbe’ ? LOL!!!! dw
>Yep. Gotta consider the source. He comes on here asking what everyone >thinks of the 2205 and when everyone says "Don’t buy it, this is the problem >with that amp." He buys it and _then_ proceeds to say "OK, how do I fix it? >Preamp tubes?"
Yes, I did ask. And if I recall correctly nobody said that model was shit until after I posted that I had bought it. I asked repeatedly which model would be the best to get a certain tone and the replies were mostly in the vein of " Don’t try to sound like your heroes, just find your own tone" no one said "don’t buy the 2205 it won’t get the tone your after" I was more concerned with which model Marshall would provide the certain basic tone I wanted but no one here said which would. I know the different models sound different. I could not locate one of each model to try out, that is why I asked for advice on which one sounded like so and so, so I would be headed in the right direction. Why is the 2205’s circuitry so different from the 2204 that it can’t be made to sound similar? DEMENTED
> Tone is almost as misused a term as "soul". I don’t care how bad a player > you are, you hit a chord on anyone’s rig and it’s going to have a similar > sound.
I suppose… but there are probably 1000 + different ’setting combinations’ in the rig, from the guitar through to the amp and another bunch of ‘articulations’ you can do with your playing technique that will make a rig sound COMPLETELY different from one player to the next. Similar… whats similar…??? All guitars and amps are ’similar’… One of my friends plays a Super 400 through a PolyTone Bass amp… while his buddy plays a strat through an old Bandmaster… they sound almost identical… so… what does this tell us..??? ( I guess folks could assume I have a tin ear… but that’s not the case) There are folks in this NG who jump around claiming this-and-that about the tone of this guitar or that guitar… and half of these guitars they rave about are ‘bolt-on’ neck guitars…!!! Years ago, players scoffed at such an instrument, claiming they were just cheap, inexpensive, excuses for noise-makers. Talk about tone… how about a 1972 D’Aquisto ‘New Yorker’ guitar.. asking $38,000…?? spose it has good tone..??? or how ’bout a D’Angelico for around $56,000…?? These are some pretty well made guitars folks… And amps… well that’s another subject… some say it’s the design, some say it’s the parts, others the ’set up’ and it’s some of each… then again the amp is only part to the equation… The example of one player playing a chord on another players rig and it will sound the same is like saying if I use one of Tiger Woods golf clubs and hit a ball it will go the same as if he hit it… eh..?? Well, yes.. sort of… Take a guys rig… and put all the knobs on ‘ 0 ‘ and let someone else ‘dial in’ the same tone as the owner… sometimes it’s an ‘easy’ thing… other times it won’t happen… rigs are like clothes, some people have no ‘taste’ of their own so they buy ‘designer label’ clothes… this assures them of ‘taste’… and if you buy a LP , a tube-screamer, and the correct Marshall… you too can achieve that ‘designer’ sort of signature sound… ask around for what settings everyone uses and you’ll be able to dial it in… even if you can’t recognize it… it’ll be there. Hey, even Robt. Johnson did what he had to do to get his chops (and tone, I suppose)… Lastly… I was at a jam last night with a Tele, and a little Pignose G-40… I had all kinds of trouble getting a sound I liked… I’d never played the two together… I was trying everything… then I removed the EQ pedal I had in the chain… TA-DA..!!!!! Magic…!!! Suddenly I could get all kinds of great tones… who’d a thunk it….?? gtski >It’s the inflections, nuances and such that separate Albert King > from Stevie Ray Vaughan, Buddy Guy from Jimi Hendrix, SRV from Kenny Wayne > Shepherd and so on and so forth. If you want to hear a characteristic > sound, find two players that use that same equipment, for example Jimi > Hendrix and Jimmy Page through a Marshall Super Lead, and pay enough > attention to hear the similarities in the tones.
I paid attention to the fact that Page played a Tele for the album cuts and an LP live… and that Hendrix played a strat mostly… and I guess the ’similarities’ are that they both play very loud… I find more difference than similar… > Look at it this way, if gear meant shit why would anyone care what they were > playing through?
They’d care because there are 15,000 other people who THINK it matters a LOT and the great marketing skills of Fender/Marshall/etc. tell you that you MUST have this or that to sound good. Your question begs a REAL answer… but not one people want to hear. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hope that helps dude.. > Well, it seems some of you get what I’m trying to say, some still don’t. > When I > say that the final tone is a product of the gear more than the player, > it’s not > because of my playing that I’ve come to this conclusion. Other players, > some > far better than I and some the same or worse have played through my gear. > Of > course each players individuality come through but the actual "sound" > coming > out the speakers is still the same. I’m talking sound quality not the > musicality of what’s being played, Pete. For example, my Hamer sounds > good > through every amp I have played it on, my strat sounds good on some amps > only. > This is a result of the gear, not the player. The whole thing has started > because I wanted a Marshall to play my Les Paul through. I am searching > for a > classic "Gibson into a Marshall" sound, is this possible with gear only? > or do > I need to become a virtuostic guitar god to get the tone from my magical > fingers? > Thanks for all your opinions so far, DEMENTED > http://www.newsgroups.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > —–= Over 100,000 Newsgroups – Ulimited Fast Downloads – 19 Servers
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Yep. Gotta consider the source. He comes on here asking what everyone >thinks of the 2205 and when everyone says "Don’t buy it, this is the problem >with that amp." He buys it and _then_ proceeds to say "OK, how do I fix it? >Preamp tubes?" > Yes, I did ask. And if I recall correctly nobody said that model was shit until > after I posted that I had bought it. I asked repeatedly which model would be > the best to get a certain tone and the replies were mostly in the vein of " > Don’t try to sound like your heroes, just find your own tone" no one said > "don’t buy the 2205 it won’t get the tone your after" I was more concerned with > which model Marshall would provide the certain basic tone I wanted but no one > here said which would. I know the different models sound different. I could not > locate one of each model to try out, that is why I asked for advice on which > one sounded like so and so, so I would be headed in the right direction. Why is > the 2205’s circuitry so different from the 2204 that it can’t be made to sound > similar?
Put simply, diode clipping. Some people like that sound, some people don’t. The Jubilee series has diode clipping as well. For a while Rich Robinson of the Crowes used Jubilee heads to great effect, same with Slash. But by no means is that an accurate representation of the classic Marshall sound. It’s just a different sound and some people like it. It all depends on what you want out of it. My recommendation? If you want Page/Hendrix era Marshall sound, get a ‘72 50watt metal panel in the best, most original condition you can find and send it to Doug Roccaforte and tell him what you want out of the amp. He will get it up to spec and sounding great and I’m sure he’d be happy to tweak it a little for youI get the impression that you don’t want to spend a ton of money and that’s probably your best bet for that sound. I bought a ‘72 in excellent condition for $600 on eBay 3-4 months ago. The ‘72 is the last of the point to point Marshalls for that particular model. They went to PCB at some point in ‘73. I would say ‘72-’73 If you want a more modern gain version of the basic Marshall sound, get a JCM 2203 or 2204 in the best, most original condition you can find. I don’t think any of this is stuff that I haven’t seen posted here many times before, though. In fact, here you go: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=B8F1E421.33CE%25lgillis%40… et http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=ICul8.23048%24RJ4.185022%4… ader http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=a6slg1%24d1p%241%40arachne… nth.net.au That’s three. I did notice that none were a direct reply to one of your messages, and I symphatize with that fact, but at the same time you posted in all of them so you must’ve read them. And I also noticed that the first post was after you bought the amp but in case you missed that one I’d recommend you check it out. Just out of curiousity, is there any way you can return this amp? And don’t get me wrong, I wasn’t trying to be critical of you so if you took offense, I apologize. It just seemed kind of funny because I don’t remember anyone ever saying "Buy that amp, that’s the Marshall sound," because it’s just not. Everyone makes those mistakes, though. I’ve bought my fair share of mistakes as well. Every Supro isn’t a Thunderbolt, that’s a good lesson I learned from impulsive buying. Ben
> Tone is almost as misused a term as "soul". I don’t care how bad a player > you are, you hit a chord on anyone’s rig and it’s going to have a similar > sound.
(snip) > The example of one player playing a chord on another players rig and it will > sound the same is > like saying if I use one of Tiger Woods golf clubs and hit a ball it will go > the same as if he hit it… eh..??
That’s the worst analogy I’ve ever heard regarding this topic. Let me rephrase what I said, if two players hit the same chord on the same rig with the same amount of finger pressure, with the same method of downstroke, with the pick hitting each string at the same point, there are going to be *similarities* between the two sounds. Let me rephrase it again, if two players hit a different chord on the same rig with a different amount of finger pressure, with an upstroke, with the pick missing most of the strings because this person has never played the guitar before, there are going to be *similarities* between the two sounds. >It’s the inflections, nuances and such that separate Albert King > from Stevie Ray Vaughan, Buddy Guy from Jimi Hendrix, SRV from Kenny > Wayne > Shepherd and so on and so forth. If you want to hear a characteristic > sound, find two players that use that same equipment, for example Jimi > Hendrix and Jimmy Page through a Marshall Super Lead, and pay enough > attention to hear the similarities in the tones. > I paid attention to the fact that Page played a Tele for the album cuts and > an LP live…
Do you even have the slightest clue what he had to go through to even make the *recorded* sound of a Tele sound even remotely like a Les Paul? Seriously, do you? > and that Hendrix played a strat mostly… and I guess the ’similarities’ > are that they both > play very loud… I find more difference than similar…
Of course there are more differences than similarities. But if you can’t hear the basic similarities between the two, the similarities being what makes a Marshall sound like a Marshall, then I have to question if you’re even listening to them. > Look at it this way, if gear meant shit why would anyone care what they > were > playing through? > They’d care because there are 15,000 other people who THINK it matters a LOT > and the great marketing skills of Fender/Marshall/etc. tell you that you > MUST have this > or that to sound good. > Your question begs a REAL answer… but not one people want to hear.
Bullshit. That’s a halfass answer if there ever was one. Gear matters, period. Is saying what I said a drastic oversimplification of the truth? Absolutely. But it’s true. Gear matters. It’s all in the DEGREE to which it matters that most people don’t understand. Amps have characteristic tones. If you can’t accept that, fine, pick up a guitar, let’s say a ‘59 Les Paul, and play the solo to Stairway to Heaven with any inflections, articulations, whatever you want to call them, you like through a solid state Crate. Then play it the exact same way with the exact same guitar through a Supro Thunderbolt. All things being equal, if you can’t admit that there are going to be *characteristic* differences between the two you’re so far out of touch with reality that it’s pointless to even have this discussion.
Oops, somehow this paragraph got cut up. It all depends on what you want out of it. My recommendation? If you want a Page/Hendrix era Marshall sound, get a ‘72 50watt metal panel in the best, most original condition you can find and send it to Doug Roccaforte and tell him what you want out of the amp. He will get it up to spec and sounding great and I’m sure he’d be happy to tweak it a little for you. I get the impression that you don’t want to spend a ton of money and that’s probably your best bet for that sound relatively inexpensively even though a ‘72 isn’t a plexi. I bought a ‘72 in excellent condition for $600 on eBay 3-4 months ago. The ‘72 is the last full year of the point to point Marshalls for that particular model. They went to PCB at some point in ‘73 so there are some from ‘73 that aren’t PCB. I would say go for a ‘72-’73 but if you look for ’72s only, you’ll be absolutely certain you’re getting a point to point wired amp. http://www.newsgroups.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–= Over 100,000 Newsgroups – Ulimited Fast Downloads – 19 Servers =—–
I have 3 Little Giant Pumps. All worked fine and this year they dont work, how do i fix them. They are the number 8 of the blueones. Darren
>I have 3 Little Giant Pumps. All worked fine and this year they dont work, >how do i fix them. They are the number 8 of the blueones. >Darren
I suppose one thing to do would be contact Little Giant, which has a website (littlegiant.com, or littlegiandpumpco. com, or something like that). I’m sure you’ll be able to find them through a search. I’ve got an LG and they’ve answered questions for me. Ed in Chicago
I have 3 Little Giant Pumps. All worked fine and this year they dont work, how do i fix them. They are the number 8 of the blueones. Darren
>I have 3 Little Giant Pumps. All worked fine and this year they dont work, >how do i fix them. They are the number 8 of the blueones. >Darren
I suppose one thing to do would be contact Little Giant, which has a website (littlegiant.com, or littlegiandpumpco. com, or something like that). I’m sure you’ll be able to find them through a search. I’ve got an LG and they’ve answered questions for me. Ed in Chicago