Hello, I just bought a 1989 525i and am a first time BMW owner. I’ve had it only about 5 days and I love the car. It is experiencing some strange electrical problems however that I urgently need to solve. Here is a list of what is happening. Any constuctive input would be much appreciated. LOW BEAMS and FOG LAMPS not working. I have checked all the fuses under the hood related to lights and they are okay. I checked the contacts of the fuse box with meter and there is no power going to them (there is power to the high beams though). The bulbs also seem fine. How do I fix this? I need low beams and fog lights (especially this time of year). Also the left side front marker light does not work with the other running lights but does work when signaling. Is this related to the fog/low beam problem? Dash lights not working. I solved this when I removed the after market stereo. Maybe a short or something? Need to install the stereo properly The person who had the car before me installed an after market stereo and did a hack job. Can someone please tell me the BMW stereo wire color codes so I can do a proper stereo install? Could this bad install be the cause of some of my electrical gremlins? Heater Blower fan does not shut off completely. The first couple days it worked fine. Now if I turn the fan dial down it will only slow down to the first notch. It will not shut off completely. The computer beside the CD player reads PPPPP. What does this mean? Why won’t it function and how do I fix it? I know there are a lot of questions here but I am open to suggestions and input. Please reply as soon as possible. Urgent. Thank you for your time. Mark
Hi Mark! > I just bought a 1989 525i and am a first time BMW owner. I’ve had it only
about 5 days and I love the car. It is experiencing Congratulations! > LOW BEAMS and FOG LAMPS not working.
The whole light system is controlled and monitored by the Lamp Control Module in the fuse box. The procedures to cure light problems are available e.g. here: http://www.bmwe34.net/E34main/Maintenance/Electrical/LKM.htm http://www.e32fixes.com/results.asp?method=show_fix&fixid=1 http://www.e32fixes.com/results.asp?method=show_fix&fixid=2 (keep in mind, that your 5-series shares most of the electrical designs with the 7-series E32 introduced 2 years earlier) Beside the soldering points check and clean all the relay contacts (3 or 4 inside the LKM) > Dash lights not working. I solved this when I removed the after market
stereo. Maybe a short or something? Could be the short but also a failing dimmer. > Need to install the stereo properly > Can someone please tell me the BMW stereo wire color codes so I can do a
proper stereo install? Look here: For ordinary stereo: http://www.carsoft.ru/avtorepair/bmw_e34/6510.0/index.html For Hi-Fi option (separate amp behind the left trunc cover): http://www.carsoft.ru/avtorepair/bmw_e34/6510.1/index.html No radio, just provision: http://www.carsoft.ru/avtorepair/bmw_e34/6510.2/index.html > Could this bad install be the cause of some of my electrical gremlins?
Incompetent aftermarket hacks at the electrical system are the most often reasons for problems. > Heater Blower fan does not shut off completely. > The first couple days it worked fine. Now if I turn the fan dial down it
will only slow down to the first notch. > It will not shut off completely.
To help you further, you have to be more specific about the climate control on your car. At least three different types were installed (theone without A/C probably only in Europe). If yours looks like this, you have the IHKR (Integrated Climate Control) http://www.auto24.ee/kasutatud/pildid/auto24/560/237773.jpg But if it looks like this, you have the IHKA (Integrated Climate Automatic) http://www.auto24.ee/kasutatud/pildid/auto24/560/189558.jpg They have very different fan control concepts. (IHKA has the famous "sword" for stepless blower speed control) more: http://www.bmwe34.net/E34main/Maintenance/Electrical/Sword.htm > The computer beside the CD player reads PPPPP. > What does this mean? Why won’t it function and how do I fix it?
This means, that the OBC (On-Board Computer, computer beside the CD player) can not communicate with the instrument cluster. The OBC must read the configuration info (contents of Coding Plug, among other things number of cylinders, tank capacity etc.) to be able to calculate values correctly. You probably can’t get the OBC data displayed on the center LCD panel of the cluster too (you have to push the tip of turn stalk for this)? If the cluster itself is OK (rpm, fuel consumption displays are ok), then probably the data connection between the cluster and OBC is broken. Very easily also caused by the radio installer, as the wiring harnesses run together for radio and OBC. If also the cluster does not display correct data, then the coding plug (an EPROM chip) itself can be gone south. It can and must be reordered (pre-coded for your vehicle) from dealer. Further info: http://www.bimmernut.com/wwwboard/e34/messages/30644.html The easiest way to diagnose would be to go to the dealer and read the fault codes of both the cluster and OBC. If you are to check the wiring yourself then you’ll need the wiring diagram (ask me!). The diagrams on carsoft.ru site are only for "low version" of e34, they have a simpler cluster without the LCD display and any data connection between cluster and OBC. Regards, Priit
One more sidenote to my previous post: > If also the cluster does not display correct data, then the coding plug (an > EPROM chip) itself can be gone south. > It can and must be reordered (pre-coded for your vehicle) from dealer.
Before you rush to order the new coding plug from the dealer, try one simple thing first. I had the PPPPP display after first power-up of my newly installed OBC: http://member.rivernet.com.au/btaylor/BMWText/technical/OBCRetrofitE3… Try to enter date and time, while ignition key is in the "run" position (II). If this doesn’t help, then start to look for disruption in the data bus between the OBC and cluster. Priit
My OBC reads PPPPP in any key position but I will check again. Any other comments anyone? Keep’m coming. Thanks – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > One more sidenote to my previous post: > If also the cluster does not display correct data, then the coding plug > (an > EPROM chip) itself can be gone south. > It can and must be reordered (pre-coded for your vehicle) from dealer. > Before you rush to order the new coding plug from the dealer, try one simple > thing first. > I had the PPPPP display after first power-up of my newly installed OBC: > http://member.rivernet.com.au/btaylor/BMWText/technical/OBCRetrofitE3… > Try to enter date and time, while ignition key is in the "run" position > (II). > If this doesn’t help, then start to look for disruption in the data bus > between the OBC and cluster. > Priit
> My OBC reads PPPPP in any key position but I will check again. Any other > comments anyone? Keep’m coming. Thanks
Be very careful with after-market stereos – they may draw too much power and cause the battery to not fully recharge and ruin it. There is a limit to how much current the charging system can supply – if there is also a parasitic drain from bad wiring or if the stereo uses too much power, the battery will not properly recharge. A faulty battery can also cause all kinds of mysterious electrical problems like dash lights not working or headlights not working. If the electrical system was messed up by the previous owner he may well have fried some of the electrical components. Start by making sure you have a healthy charging system and healthy battery – especially since *ALL* of the problems you mentioned are electrical. And stay away from that stereo until the rest of the car is working. Always get the car back to working in factory spec before messing with it. Otherwise you may just make it more difficult to troubleshoot. You may also want to pick up a service manual for the car at some point. The Bentley on is probably the best one. If you keep this car it will help if you know how to service it. Michael – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> One more sidenote to my previous post: > > If also the cluster does not display correct data, then the coding plug > (an > > EPROM chip) itself can be gone south. > > It can and must be reordered (pre-coded for your vehicle) from dealer. > Before you rush to order the new coding plug from the dealer, try one simple > thing first. > I had the PPPPP display after first power-up of my newly installed OBC: > http://member.rivernet.com.au/btaylor/BMWText/technical/OBCRetrofitE3… > Try to enter date and time, while ignition key is in the "run" position > (II). > If this doesn’t help, then start to look for disruption in the data bus > between the OBC and cluster. > Priit
> A faulty battery can also cause all kinds of mysterious electrical > problems like dash lights not working or headlights not working.
I’d say this is hardly mysterious – if the battery is f**ked, it’s unlikely any electrical equipment will work. But then again, the car won’t start… — *Verbs HAS to agree with their subjects * RIP Acorn
> > A faulty battery can also cause all kinds of mysterious electrical > problems like dash lights not working or headlights not working. > I’d say this is hardly mysterious – if the battery is f**ked, it’s > unlikely any electrical equipment will work. But then again, the car won’t > start…
Cars have more electronics these days. I’ve come across many car owners complaining about electrical glitches for some time before their cars eventually fail to start. Sometimes people also jump start their cars improperly and think everything’s fine after they get the batteries recharged…but unaware they have fried some of the electronics in the jump start ordeal. I also believe systems are more susceptible than others to voltage drops or fluctuations. It can really throw people off when they act up. One of them may even be that way by design. You must have come across similar stories. ;#) Michael
Hello again, Well, I’ve been trying a variety of things and have still made no progress, especially in regards to the lighting problem. I have checked all fuses. The relays appear to be good. I’ve pulled the LKM and resoldered almost everything. I STILL HAVE NO LOW BEAMS OR FOGS. There appears to be no voltage even getting to the fuse. The relays in the LKM are working. I can see them move. I’ve tried manually tripping the relays with a non conduction tool. The relay for hi beams works but even thought the other relays move the other lights will not come on. Any other ideas? Also. I am trying to see how a connection might be interrupted between the OBC and the cluster and or signal control (PPPP). What should I be looking for? how do the cables route? Can some one tell me how to remove the OBC and test the wiring harness for it. Thanks again. I look forward to more answers. The help has been great so far. Mark
> > > A faulty battery can also cause all kinds of mysterious electrical > > problems like dash lights not working or headlights not working. > I’d say this is hardly mysterious – if the battery is f**ked, it’s > unlikely any electrical equipment will work. But then again, the car won’t > start… > Cars have more electronics these days. I’ve come across many car > owners complaining about electrical glitches for some time before their > cars eventually fail to start.
Possible, but basics like headlights not working? > Sometimes people also jump start their cars improperly and think > everything’s fine after they get the batteries recharged…but unaware > they have fried some of the electronics in the jump start ordeal.
Most cars electronics are designed with the fact that the car might be jump started in mind – indeed BMW give jump starting instructions in the owner’s manual. > I also believe systems are more susceptible than others to voltage > drops or fluctuations. It can really throw people off when they act > up. One of them may even be that way by design. You must have come > across similar stories. ;#)
I’ve come across many such stories, but on investigation of some they prove to be the wrong diagnosis of a different problem. — *You can’t have everything, where would you put it? RIP Acorn
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello again, > Well, I’ve been trying a variety of things and have still made no progress, > especially in regards to the lighting problem. I have checked all fuses. The > relays appear to be good. I’ve pulled the LKM and resoldered almost everything. > I STILL HAVE NO LOW BEAMS OR FOGS. There appears to be no voltage even getting > to the fuse. The relays in the LKM are working. I can see them move. I’ve tried > manually tripping the relays with a non conduction tool. The relay for hi beams > works but even thought the other relays move the other lights will not come on. > Any other ideas? > Also. I am trying to see how a connection might be interrupted between the OBC > and the cluster and or signal control (PPPP). What should I be looking for? how > do the cables route? Can some one tell me how to remove the OBC and test the > wiring harness for it. Thanks again. I look forward to more answers. The help > has been great so far. > Mark
A perverse idea just came to me. It’s just a hunch but it may be worth checking and perhaps someone who knows E28 better can also comment. My E30 had a built-in option, a security alarm system. It consisted of an LED display and a multi-function keypad. When I parked the car I could enable this alarm by selecting the alarm function and entering a code with the keypad on this computer. When I wanted to restart the car I had to re-enter this code or the starter would not get any power. If I entered the wrong code more than thrice the horn and lights will come on and make a huge racket and scene. I seem to recall the LED would display a blinking "—–". I don’t know anything about "PPPPP" displays but this may be the E28 security system telling you the alarm is set and the password needs to entered before the car will start. I suspect the previous owner did not know or forgot (unlikely) the password. So the car became disabled – permanently. He then hot-wired the circuit for the low beams (possibly shared with fogs) into the starter – BINGO – the security system was circumvented. This means the relays and LKM for the lights still work but they will get no power so your lights don’t work. I would look for the starter motor and trace back the circuit that is supplying it power – you will probably find that someone had re-route this from the light circuit. If this is true, your car may have been a stolen car. Not sure why heater fan is screwed up. Of course, if this is true your security system will also still prevent your car from being restarted if you fix the wiring. I am guessing but I suspect there is a rechargeable battery(ies) that provide back-up power to the security system (like the SII batteries). If you extract the battery(ies) you should be able to reinitialize the security system. Then you’ll only need to re-route the circuits so your lights will work again. This is just a hunch as I am not familiar with the E28. Michael
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > A faulty battery can also cause all kinds of mysterious electrical > > > problems like dash lights not working or headlights not working. > > I’d say this is hardly mysterious – if the battery is f**ked, it’s > > unlikely any electrical equipment will work. But then again, the car won’t > > start… > Cars have more electronics these days. I’ve come across many car > owners complaining about electrical glitches for some time before their > cars eventually fail to start. > Possible, but basics like headlights not working?
I agree headlights tend to be pretty robust unless part of the circuit is shot (see my earlier message regading hunch about "stolen car"). In addition, is it not possible to overload the circuit when jump starting a bad battery? I’ve certainly heard of bulbs blowing before. > Sometimes people also jump start their cars improperly and think > everything’s fine after they get the batteries recharged…but unaware > they have fried some of the electronics in the jump start ordeal. > Most cars electronics are designed with the fact that the car might be > jump started in mind – indeed BMW give jump starting instructions in the > owner’s manual.
I’ve read differently. I can find the reference or details now but some people have fried their circuits before. I don’t believe BMW does anything more than using fuses to protect circuits. OTOH, I’d like to know if you have information on this. Similarly, I suspect BMW offers jump starting advice because it’s a "necessary evil" in almost all cases. BMW may simply be trying to minimize possibility of damage – and not that there is never a chance of damage when their instructions are faithfully adhered to. > I also believe systems are more susceptible than others to voltage > drops or fluctuations. It can really throw people off when they act > up. One of them may even be that way by design. You must have come > across similar stories. ;#) > I’ve come across many such stories, but on investigation of some they > prove to be the wrong diagnosis of a different problem.
I agree, that’s quite true with stories I’ve read too. However, IME, there are some stories that do pan out to be or remain likely to be – caused by bad batteries. Michael
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello again, > Well, I’ve been trying a variety of things and have still made no progress, > especially in regards to the lighting problem. I have checked all fuses. The > relays appear to be good. I’ve pulled the LKM and resoldered almost > everything. > I STILL HAVE NO LOW BEAMS OR FOGS. There appears to be no voltage even > getting > to the fuse. The relays in the LKM are working. I can see them move. I’ve > tried > manually tripping the relays with a non conduction tool. The relay for hi > beams > works but even thought the other relays move the other lights will not come > on. > Any other ideas? > Also. I am trying to see how a connection might be interrupted between the > OBC > and the cluster and or signal control (PPPP). What should I be looking for? > how > do the cables route? Can some one tell me how to remove the OBC and test the > wiring harness for it. Thanks again. I look forward to more answers. The > help > has been great so far. > Mark > A perverse idea just came to me. > It’s just a hunch but it may be worth checking and perhaps someone who > knows E28 better can also comment. > My E30 had a built-in option, a security alarm system. It consisted > of an LED display and a multi-function keypad. When I parked the car > I could enable this alarm by selecting the alarm function and entering > a code with the keypad on this computer. When I wanted to restart the > car I had to re-enter this code or the starter would not get any > power. If I entered the wrong code more than thrice the horn and > lights will come on and make a huge racket and scene. I seem to > recall the LED would display a blinking "—–". > I don’t know anything about "PPPPP" displays but this may be the E28 > security system telling you the alarm is set and the password needs to > entered before the car will start. > I suspect the previous owner did not know or forgot (unlikely) the > password. So the car became disabled – permanently. He then > hot-wired the circuit for the low beams (possibly shared with fogs) > into the starter – BINGO – the security system was circumvented.
I should make a slight correction here (after getting my sleep last night) my recollection improved on this matter and I believe the E30 security system actually disabled the FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM and NOT THE STARTER. I would suspect the E28’s did the same. So check the circuit that connects to the FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM. I imagine if my hunch s right there may be some obvious jury-rigged wiring that should catch your attention. > This means the relays and LKM for the lights still work but they will > get no power so your lights don’t work. I would look for the starter > motor and trace back the circuit that is supplying it power
Again, you should trace back from the FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM and NOT THE STARTER. Good luck! Michael
> In addition, is it not possible to overload the circuit when jump > starting a bad battery? I’ve certainly heard of bulbs blowing before.
Well, assuming both cars run on the same voltage (anything else is rather unlikely) when you jump start you connect them in parallel, so the voltage can only be the higher of the two – that of the car with the good battery, and only a matter of a couple of volts which in any case is only the voltage the ‘dead’ car would produce anyway. *If* the battery on the ‘dead’ car was well and truly knackered to the point where its internal resistance was very high, it’s just possible that on disconnecting the donor car after starting that the alternator could give out more than a safe voltage – in the same way as can happen if you disconnecting the battery with the engine running. But it’s a big if. I’d say a bulb blowing while jump starting is likely just coincidence. Much of the car electronics I’ve actually examined carefully include overvoltage protection for just this possibility – it’s not unknown for a battery terminal to be left loose and come off in use. On my ‘other’ car, which has mainly Lucas electrics, the OBC display blanks if the voltage goes over 15 or so – to protect the LEDs. And much other electronics will run on a lower than 12 volt rail anyway to provide a stabilised voltage, so will be protected by their voltage regulator. — RIP Acorn
> Again, you should trace back from the FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM and NOT THE > STARTER.
The common way is to disable the fuel pump. — *Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere may be happy. RIP Acorn
> > In addition, is it not possible to overload the circuit when jump > starting a bad battery? I’ve certainly heard of bulbs blowing before. > Well, assuming both cars run on the same voltage (anything else is rather > unlikely) when you jump start you connect them in parallel, so the voltage > can only be the higher of the two – that of the car with the good battery, > and only a matter of a couple of volts which in any case is only the > voltage the ‘dead’ car would produce anyway.
Hmm, I thought voltages had to be matched. > *If* the battery on the ‘dead’ car was well and truly knackered to the > point where its internal resistance was very high, it’s just possible that > on disconnecting the donor car after starting that the alternator could > give out more than a safe voltage – in the same way as can happen if you > disconnecting the battery with the engine running. But it’s a big if.
But is the risk worth taking? > I’d say a bulb blowing while jump starting is likely just coincidence.
Maybe I’ll come across the posting again – it was on this NG I think. > Much of the car electronics I’ve actually examined carefully include > overvoltage protection for just this possibility – it’s not unknown for a > battery terminal to be left loose and come off in use. On my ‘other’ car, > which has mainly Lucas electrics, the OBC display blanks if the voltage > goes over 15 or so – to protect the LEDs. And much other electronics will > run on a lower than 12 volt rail anyway to provide a stabilised voltage, > so will be protected by their voltage regulator.
Yes, I understand what you say and your own experiences may make you feel better. I have also done it successfully before when I had an old junker. It didn’t have any sensitive electronic systems "worth failing" :#). Nowadays, I would not jump-start my car if I were not stranded in the middle of nowhere with a very very desperate need to revive my car as quickly as I can. I think it’s much safer to catch a ride with someone and get a fresh battery for the car. I have read of E39s getting fried by jump-starts even when done by the experts. There is also differing opinions on the procedure BMW recommended – some swear by opening up maximum electrical load in the jumped car even at the risk of reducing the available current, simply as a precaution. The theory behind jump-starting is fine but when you are actually doing it even experts can make "fatal" mistakes because jump-starting can be so messy especially when people are in a hurry, it’s frigid, the light is poor, cable is too short,…etc.. When something goes wrong afterwards it’s very hard and unpleasant to pinpoint the cause/blame. With cell phones and car clubs abound, I don’t think the benefits of jump-starting outweigh the risks. I don’t even bother to carry a jumper cable despite the winter conditions we get into here. Michael
> > Well, assuming both cars run on the same voltage (anything else is > rather unlikely) when you jump start you connect them in parallel, so > the voltage can only be the higher of the two – that of the car with > the good battery, and only a matter of a couple of volts which in any > case is only the voltage the ‘dead’ car would produce anyway. > Hmm, I thought voltages had to be matched.
If the voltages matched, the car wouldn’t need jump starting. > *If* the battery on the ‘dead’ car was well and truly knackered to > the point where its internal resistance was very high, it’s just > possible that on disconnecting the donor car after starting that the > alternator could give out more than a safe voltage – in the same way > as can happen if you disconnecting the battery with the engine > running. But it’s a big if. > But is the risk worth taking?
It’s such a small risk that yes, I’d say. I’ve heard of all these problems about jump starting – but never first or second hand. Always stories. And even if some are true, coincidence can still play a part. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’d say a bulb blowing while jump starting is likely just coincidence. > Maybe I’ll come across the posting again – it was on this NG I think. > Much of the car electronics I’ve actually examined carefully include > overvoltage protection for just this possibility – it’s not unknown > for a battery terminal to be left loose and come off in use. On my > ‘other’ car, which has mainly Lucas electrics, the OBC display blanks > if the voltage goes over 15 or so – to protect the LEDs. And much > other electronics will run on a lower than 12 volt rail anyway to > provide a stabilised voltage, so will be protected by their voltage > regulator. > Yes, I understand what you say and your own experiences may make you > feel better. I have also done it successfully before when I had an old > junker. It didn’t have any sensitive electronic systems "worth failing" > :#). Nowadays, I would not jump-start my car if I were not stranded in > the middle of nowhere with a very very desperate need to revive my car > as quickly as I can. > I think it’s much safer to catch a ride with someone and get a fresh > battery for the car. I have read of E39s getting fried by jump-starts > even when done by the experts. There is also differing opinions on the > procedure BMW recommended – some swear by opening up maximum electrical > load in the jumped car even at the risk of reducing the available > current, simply as a precaution.
I’d not think BMW would give jump start instructions in the handbook if there was any real chance of damage being done. After all, they ain’t exactly forthcoming on the DIY maintenance front… But after starting the vehicle, it’s no bad thing to run both engines at a fast idle for a few minutes to balance the voltages – to lessen a chance of a spark when disconnecting. > The theory behind jump-starting is fine but when you are actually doing > it even experts can make "fatal" mistakes because jump-starting can be > so messy especially when people are in a hurry, it’s frigid, the light > is poor, cable is too short,…etc.. When something goes wrong > afterwards it’s very hard and unpleasant to pinpoint the cause/blame. > With cell phones and car clubs abound, I don’t think the benefits of > jump-starting outweigh the risks. I don’t even bother to carry a jumper > cable despite the winter conditions we get into here.
The *only* real danger is getting the polarity wrong – assuming you’re not foolish enough to try a jump off a 24volt truck. And using the under bonnet jumper points makes getting the polarity wrong difficult – unless an idiot thinks they should be wired in series as torch batteries are… — *I started out with nothing… and I still have most of it. RIP Acorn
>> *If* the battery on the ‘dead’ car was well and truly knackered to the > point where its internal resistance was very high, it’s just possible that > on disconnecting the donor car after starting that the alternator could > give out more than a safe voltage – in the same way as can happen if you > disconnecting the battery with the engine running. But it’s a big if. >But is the risk worth taking?
This is called a "load dump", and AFAIK, all automotive electronics are designed to tolerate it.
> >> *If* the battery on the ‘dead’ car was well and truly knackered to the >> point where its internal resistance was very high, it’s just possible that >> on disconnecting the donor car after starting that the alternator could >> give out more than a safe voltage – in the same way as can happen if you >> disconnecting the battery with the engine running. But it’s a big if. >But is the risk worth taking? > This is called a "load dump", and AFAIK, all automotive electronics > are designed to tolerate it.
So you say AFAYK. And even though lots of people do jump start their cars I have also read evidence alluding to BMWs being damaged by it AFAIK. So is the risk still worth taking? IMO, NO! Michael
> So you say AFAYK. And even though lots of people do jump start their > cars I have also read evidence alluding to BMWs being damaged by it > AFAIK.
One reads plenty. But have you first hand experience of this, or even secondhand? — *If a parsley farmer is sued, can they garnish his wages? RIP Acorn
> > So you say AFAYK. And even though lots of people do jump start their > cars I have also read evidence alluding to BMWs being damaged by it > AFAIK. > One reads plenty. But have you first hand experience of this, or even > secondhand?
Are you kidding, why should I have to wait till I fry my car’s electronics before I heed other people’s warnings? What I wrote was basically that people can treat the matter according to whatever they are comfortable with – AFATK. AFAIK, too many people have had expensive problems by jump-starting their BMWs and I personally do not have reasons to insist on jump-starts. So IMO, the risk is unwarranted. Here’s part of my rationale, think of jump-starting this way:- …….you are allowing some stranger with unknown levels of skill and experience, apply a high current to your car’s circuits from an unknown source under non-garage conditions where everyone is perhaps pressed for time and time of day perhaps being very early or very late under weather conditions that probably contributed to the unconfirmed nature of failure of your car’s system in the first place. Are these condtions not far from ideal? *IF* you had the choice to pick a more controlled and less risky option then why wouldn’t you? It is also likely the car problem requires more than a jump-start to fix – so why risk a band-aid when you don’t have to? Isn’t it better to attend to the problem without rushing? OTOH, if you are comfortable with your knowledge and skills then you need not worry about my opinions. You should just do as you please. Michael
> Here’s part of my rationale, think of jump-starting this way:- > …….you are allowing some stranger with unknown levels of skill and > experience, apply a high current to your car’s circuits from an > unknown source under non-garage conditions where everyone is perhaps > pressed for time and time of day perhaps being very early or very late > under weather conditions that probably contributed to the unconfirmed > nature of failure of your car’s system in the first place.
I’d not allow a stranger to either jump start my car or to jump start their car off mine. I’d be in charge of the operation, or it wouldn’t take place. — *A fool and his money are soon partying * RIP Acorn
> What I wrote was basically that people can treat the matter according > to whatever they are comfortable with – AFATK. AFAIK, too many people > have had expensive problems by jump-starting their BMWs and I > personally do not have reasons to insist on jump-starts. So IMO, the > risk is unwarranted. > Here’s part of my rationale, think of jump-starting this way:- > …….you are allowing some stranger with unknown levels of skill and > experience, apply a high current to your car’s circuits from an
You don’t apply a current - you apply a voltage. Since almost all cars run on a nominal 12V, and have to put up with 11-15V in normal use, there isn’t much danger of frying anything. I have jump started my BMWs - not that there is anything special about BMWs with regard to jump starting - and jump started other people’s cars from my BMWs and nothing has blown up yet. It tells you how to do it in the manual for my E34 and they even put a special battery terminal in the engine compartment for that very purpose, the battery being under the back seat. I replaced the alternator voltage regulator in my car about 6 months ago and before that it was running between about 10-20V depending how it felt; bulbs blew regularly, the lights flickered and the engine pulled irregularly. If that didn’t kill anything I doubt a jump start is going to hurt.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What I wrote was basically that people can treat the matter according > to whatever they are comfortable with – AFATK. AFAIK, too many people > have had expensive problems by jump-starting their BMWs and I > personally do not have reasons to insist on jump-starts. So IMO, the > risk is unwarranted. > Here’s part of my rationale, think of jump-starting this way:- > …….you are allowing some stranger with unknown levels of skill and > experience, apply a high current to your car’s circuits from an > You don’t apply a current - you apply a voltage. Since almost all cars > run on a nominal 12V, and have to put up with 11-15V in normal use, there > isn’t much danger of frying anything. > I have jump started my BMWs - not that there is anything special about > BMWs with regard to jump starting - and jump started other people’s cars > from my BMWs and nothing has blown up yet. It tells you how to do it in > the manual for my E34 and they even put a special battery terminal in the > engine compartment for that very purpose, the battery being under the back > seat. > I replaced the alternator voltage regulator in my car about 6 months ago > and before that it was running between about 10-20V depending how it felt; > bulbs blew regularly, the lights flickered and the engine pulled > irregularly. If that didn’t kill anything I doubt a jump start is going to > hurt.
Dan, as I mentioned to Dave earlier,"…if you are comfortable with your knowledge and skills then you need not worry about my opinions. You should just do as you please." Michael
> Dan, as I mentioned to Dave earlier,"…if you are comfortable with > your knowledge and skills then you need not worry about my opinions. > You should just do as you please."
No-one is suggesting *you* should do otherwise. But passing on your misinformation is a different matter. — *If a mute swears, does his mother wash his hands with soap? RIP Acorn
> > Dan, as I mentioned to Dave earlier,"…if you are comfortable with > your knowledge and skills then you need not worry about my opinions. > You should just do as you please." > No-one is suggesting *you* should do otherwise. But passing on your > misinformation is a different matter.
Do you only mean "technical misinformation" like when you (just) claimed on the "
You need a new PCV Valve Grommet. Seen it time and time before on the 88-91 3.8. Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >The cause of the backfire is raw (unburned) fuel in your exhaust. The other >answers have been correct. It is relatively cheap and easy to replace plugs, >wires, ignition modules etc. Another thing you could do though is bring it >to your local garage and have them put it on there analyzer. There they can >not only tell you if its a spark plug, they can tell you which one! It will >also tell you if any of the sensors, injectors or anything else related to >and including the computer are bad. Prices vary on what they will charge to >hook you up. I believe low end about $30, high end about $75. And just >because they analyze it doesn’t mean they have to do the work. > Help! While coming home from work a few days ago, my 89 Buick lesabre >(FWD, > 3.8L) began to stutter and miss while I was accelerating, upon >accelerating > harder, the car began to backfire. After a few backfires it would >accelerate > properly while I gained more speed and work fine until the next time I had > to accelerate. > I had the tranny checked by a couple different transmission shops >(assuming > that it couldn’t down-shift to accelerate properly) and the u-joints were > checked as well. I installed a new PCV valve hoping to solve the problem > and checked all of my collant and vacuum hoses for leaks. > Not quite sure what to look at next… the transmission shops said the > engine was missing… how do I fix that?
The cause of the backfire is raw (unburned) fuel in your exhaust. The other answers have been correct. It is relatively cheap and easy to replace plugs, wires, ignition modules etc. Another thing you could do though is bring it to your local garage and have them put it on there analyzer. There they can not only tell you if its a spark plug, they can tell you which one! It will also tell you if any of the sensors, injectors or anything else related to and including the computer are bad. Prices vary on what they will charge to hook you up. I believe low end about $30, high end about $75. And just because they analyze it doesn’t mean they have to do the work.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Help! While coming home from work a few days ago, my 89 Buick lesabre (FWD, > 3.8L) began to stutter and miss while I was accelerating, upon accelerating > harder, the car began to backfire. After a few backfires it would accelerate > properly while I gained more speed and work fine until the next time I had > to accelerate. > I had the tranny checked by a couple different transmission shops (assuming > that it couldn’t down-shift to accelerate properly) and the u-joints were > checked as well. I installed a new PCV valve hoping to solve the problem > and checked all of my collant and vacuum hoses for leaks. > Not quite sure what to look at next… the transmission shops said the > engine was missing… how do I fix that?
A bad ignition module will do the same thing, it lives under the coil packs. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Help! While coming home from work a few days ago, my 89 Buick lesabre (FWD, > 3.8L) began to stutter and miss while I was accelerating, upon accelerating > harder, the car began to backfire. After a few backfires it would accelerate > properly while I gained more speed and work fine until the next time I had > to accelerate. > I had the tranny checked by a couple different transmission shops (assuming > that it couldn’t down-shift to accelerate properly) and the u-joints were > checked as well. I installed a new PCV valve hoping to solve the problem > and checked all of my collant and vacuum hoses for leaks. > Not quite sure what to look at next… the transmission shops said the > engine was missing… how do I fix that?
> Help! While coming home from work a few days ago, my 89 Buick lesabre (FWD, > 3.8L) began to stutter and miss while I was accelerating, upon accelerating > harder, the car began to backfire. After a few backfires it would accelerate > properly while I gained more speed and work fine until the next time I had > to accelerate. > I had the tranny checked by a couple different transmission shops (assuming > that it couldn’t down-shift to accelerate properly) and the u-joints were > checked as well. I installed a new PCV valve hoping to solve the problem > and checked all of my collant and vacuum hoses for leaks. > Not quite sure what to look at next… the transmission shops said the > engine was missing… how do I fix that?
BAD: plug wires plugs ign.mod. coil Most likely: bad coil and bad wire.
Plugs and wires. GW – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Help! While coming home from work a few days ago, my 89 Buick lesabre (FWD, > 3.8L) began to stutter and miss while I was accelerating, upon accelerating > harder, the car began to backfire. After a few backfires it would accelerate > properly while I gained more speed and work fine until the next time I had > to accelerate. > I had the tranny checked by a couple different transmission shops (assuming > that it couldn’t down-shift to accelerate properly) and the u-joints were > checked as well. I installed a new PCV valve hoping to solve the problem > and checked all of my collant and vacuum hoses for leaks. > Not quite sure what to look at next… the transmission shops said the > engine was missing… how do I fix that?
my flat rubber roof is leaking where a seam came apart. How do I fix it? thanks
also, it is made of a thick black rubber, and has weird circular melted looking patterns in it every few feet. hope that helps.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> my flat rubber roof is leaking where a seam came apart. How do I fix it? > thanks
> my flat rubber roof is leaking where a seam came apart. How do I fix it?
Call the people who installed the roof. A rubber roof isn’t supposed to come apart at the seams, it’s supposed to be welded at the seams so that it is a continuous membrane. It sounds to me like you have a roof that was badly installed. — There is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress. – Mark Twain —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
well, not sure who installed it? Was here when we moved in 4 years ago. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ruminated: > my flat rubber roof is leaking where a seam came apart. How do I fix it? > Call the people who installed the roof. A rubber roof isn’t supposed to come > apart at the seams, it’s supposed to be welded at the seams so that it is > a continuous membrane. It sounds to me like you have a roof that was > badly installed. > — > There is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress. > – Mark Twain > —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– > http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
Hi, That no big deal. All you need to do is get a torch and heat it up. As it gets hot and melts a bit use a trowell to seal the seam again and you are done. That’s the nice part about a Brai (rubber) roof you know. After you get done wet it down to make sure there aren’t any hot spots to start a fire. I knew a guy that did Brai roofs and he had a smolder underneath and by law you are supposed to watch the roof even after wetting it down for a few hours. He left and the entire damn apartment building burned down later that night. Nobody got hurt but damn they had nowhere to live. candice
> Hi, > That no big deal. All you need to do is get a torch and heat it up. As it gets > hot and melts a bit use a trowell to seal the seam again and you are done. > That’s the nice part about a Brai (rubber) roof you know. > After you get done wet it down to make sure there aren’t any hot spots to start > a fire. I knew a guy that did Brai roofs and he had a smolder underneath and by > law you are supposed to watch the roof even after wetting it down for a few > hours. He left and the entire damn apartment building burned down later that > night. Nobody got hurt but damn they had nowhere to live. > candice
A true "rubber" roof will be EPDM, which isn’t heated to seam. I don’t know what "brai" is, but if the "b" stands for bituminous, it is probably "torchdown" or "Mule Hide" which is seamed by heat. You really have to know what you are dealing with. In any event, I wouldn’t recommend repairing either as a DIY project if you have no experience at it. Hire a pro. JK
>my flat rubber roof is leaking where a seam came apart. How do I fix it? >thanks
If it is epdm there is a caulk which is made that seals these cracks. It is special stuff, so I’d try to find a dealer of the stuff you have on your roof and ask them. —Windows excuse #38 as applied to cars: You have a door ding, no wonder it won’t start! Fixing computers in Columbia Missouri or thereabouts.
>I don’t understand corporations… if they all move to 3rd world countries, >and fire everyone in the states, when their new cheap laborers are done >building goods and ship them back, everyone is homeless and poor and unable >to buy their goods because their company laid them off…
Hey…U.S. News and World Reports just had a GREAT article about all those lawyers sueing ANYONE in the US that has money in class action suits. One such law firm was reported as earning 25 BILLION dollars in legal fees over the next 20 years…… I can’t blame any company for refusing to be raped by those sharks. Maybe when Bush is finished with the Taliban, he’ll do America a favor and get rid of all the lawyers !!!!
Wooooe! hold on. Have you looked at GE packages lately? They buy just about everything from other countries and have very little manufacturing, not assembling now, done in this country. Multinationals, like GE, have no allegiance to the us, the U.S. 60 years ago they did, now they have none. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > RIGHT ON!!! > None of the government officials will do ANYTHING to help! > Our local representative’s family founded and still owns much of Whirlpool > company. He votes for bills and laws that help with cheap imports because > his families company gets most everything for their appliances from > overseas. > We built a new plant a few years ago and the governor promised to be here > for the grand opening. When I sent him a letter about helping Michigan > companies keep manufacturing jobs he backed out of coming to the opening > (but did send a wall plaque, whoopee). > If we were an oil company, Bush MIGHT help us out, but other than that > there’s no one on our side! > All we can do is to try to buy US made stuff whenever we have a choice EVEN > IF IT COSTS A LITTLE MORE! > Things like wheel bearings and light bulbs are still being made in the US! > Buy the TRW or Torrington bearing instead of the no name Chinese one! Buy > the General electric taillight bulb instead of the generic bubble packed > one! > Later, > Keith > > I am the president of the ONLY remaining company that makes industrial > > valves entirely in the US. > > Our competitors are getting Titanium valves made in China cheaper than I > can > > get Cast Iron valves made here. > > Of course there is NO comparison between the quality of their stuff > compared > > to ours. But in most cases the bottom dollar quote wins. Just keep this > in > > mind when you see news reports about fatal explosions and toxic spills > at > > chemical plants, power plants, etc. The foreign companies have created > odd, > > misleading "certification " standards that allow them to make faulty > junk, > > but still get impressive looking certifications from bogus testing and > > inspecting facilities overseas. Basically the foreign companies just > make up > > their own standards based on how crappy their product is, and then they > pay > > a bogus company (set up by their foreign government) to give them > > certifications based on those self made standards! > > Sometimes valves that are going to control things like CHLORINE GAS are > NOT > > TESTED AT ALL by the manufacturer! > > If their standards say that they only test one valve out of every 10,000 > > that they make, so be it! > > Once in a while I go through these certifications with a customer to > show > > him what he is REALLY getting from one of these foreign companies, and > they > > usually crap their pants when they realize that the cheap foreign valves > > that they have been putting into their plant don’t meet any of the > pressure > > or leakage standards set up decades ago by the American standards > > associations! > > The funny part is that the same steel mills who buy cheaper, foreign > valves > > instead of mine are going bankrupt because of imported steel. If they > would > > buy American made products from me, I would buy more American steel from > > them, etc. etc.. > > Xerox moves it’s manufacturing overseas, but doesn’t want me to move > mine > > because they want to sell me their copiers here in the US. > > It probably won’t all collapse in my lifetime, but I REALLY feel sorry > for > > my kids! > > Maybe I should sell my company to a foreign conglomerate for enough > money > > that my kids won’t have to worry about anything. > > But that sure wouldn’t be the right thing to do! > > Sorry for the rant. > > Back to restoring my American Made 68 GTO! > > Keith > xxxx > Have you talked to the L&I people in your state? > Your Senator? Letter to Bush? > The state of Washington has become a province of Red China. > You can’t buy around Red China in the store anymore. > Even parts of Boeing planes are fabricated in Red China. > The Chinese Communist government calls us " Decadent Bougerous Dogmatic > Capitalistic Pigs " while so far this year the balance of trade is over > 20 billion US dollars in their favor. > I say to hell with the WTO. We need to get our manufacturing footings > back and we need to do it now.
Your right. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am the president of the ONLY remaining company that makes industrial > valves entirely in the US. > Our competitors are getting Titanium valves made in China cheaper than I can > get Cast Iron valves made here. > Of course there is NO comparison between the quality of their stuff compared > to ours. But in most cases the bottom dollar quote wins. Just keep this in > mind when you see news reports about fatal explosions and toxic spills at > chemical plants, power plants, etc. The foreign companies have created odd, > misleading "certification " standards that allow them to make faulty junk, > but still get impressive looking certifications from bogus testing and > inspecting facilities overseas. Basically the foreign companies just make up > their own standards based on how crappy their product is, and then they pay > a bogus company (set up by their foreign government) to give them > certifications based on those self made standards! > Sometimes valves that are going to control things like CHLORINE GAS are NOT > TESTED AT ALL by the manufacturer! > If their standards say that they only test one valve out of every 10,000 > that they make, so be it! > Once in a while I go through these certifications with a customer to show > him what he is REALLY getting from one of these foreign companies, and they > usually crap their pants when they realize that the cheap foreign valves > that they have been putting into their plant don’t meet any of the pressure > or leakage standards set up decades ago by the American standards > associations! > The funny part is that the same steel mills who buy cheaper, foreign valves > instead of mine are going bankrupt because of imported steel. If they would > buy American made products from me, I would buy more American steel from > them, etc. etc.. > Xerox moves it’s manufacturing overseas, but doesn’t want me to move mine > because they want to sell me their copiers here in the US. > It probably won’t all collapse in my lifetime, but I REALLY feel sorry for > my kids! > Maybe I should sell my company to a foreign conglomerate for enough money > that my kids won’t have to worry about anything. > But that sure wouldn’t be the right thing to do! > Sorry for the rant. > Back to restoring my American Made 68 GTO! > Keith > xxxx > Have you talked to the L&I people in your state? > Your Senator? Letter to Bush? > The state of Washington has become a province of Red China. > You can’t buy around Red China in the store anymore. > Even parts of Boeing planes are fabricated in Red China. > The Chinese Communist government calls us " Decadent Bougerous Dogmatic > Capitalistic Pigs " while so far this year the balance of trade is over > 20 billion US dollars in their favor. > I say to hell with the WTO. We need to get our manufacturing footings > back and we need to do it now.
>Even the replacement sidearm for the Colt 45 is foreign. The Beretta >92 series.
Yes, Beretta is a foreign company, but the 92 guns bought by the US military are built in a Beretta plant in Maryland.
Goods points. Won’t be long before America is just a third world country. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I am the president of the ONLY remaining company that makes industrial > valves entirely in the US. > Our competitors are getting Titanium valves made in China cheaper than I can > get Cast Iron valves made here. > Of course there is NO comparison between the quality of their stuff compared > to ours. But in most cases the bottom dollar quote wins. Just keep this in > mind when you see news reports about fatal explosions and toxic spills at > chemical plants, power plants, etc. The foreign companies have created odd, > misleading "certification " standards that allow them to make faulty junk, > but still get impressive looking certifications from bogus testing and > inspecting facilities overseas. Basically the foreign companies just make up > their own standards based on how crappy their product is, and then they pay > a bogus company (set up by their foreign government) to give them > certifications based on those self made standards! > Sometimes valves that are going to control things like CHLORINE GAS are NOT > TESTED AT ALL by the manufacturer! > If their standards say that they only test one valve out of every 10,000 > that they make, so be it! > Once in a while I go through these certifications with a customer to show > him what he is REALLY getting from one of these foreign companies, and they > usually crap their pants when they realize that the cheap foreign valves > that they have been putting into their plant don’t meet any of the pressure > or leakage standards set up decades ago by the American standards > associations! > The funny part is that the same steel mills who buy cheaper, foreign valves > instead of mine are going bankrupt because of imported steel. If they would > buy American made products from me, I would buy more American steel from > them, etc. etc.. > Xerox moves it’s manufacturing overseas, but doesn’t want me to move mine > because they want to sell me their copiers here in the US. > It probably won’t all collapse in my lifetime, but I REALLY feel sorry for > my kids! > Maybe I should sell my company to a foreign conglomerate for enough money > that my kids won’t have to worry about anything. > But that sure wouldn’t be the right thing to do! > Sorry for the rant. > Back to restoring my American Made 68 GTO! > Keith > Well I guess that leaves Bussmann. > > Todays Chicago tribune Business Section read; > > Electronics maker Littlefuse Inc, will close its 36 year old Centralia > > (IL) plant over the next 18 months. About 300 jobs will be lost when > > the Des Plaines (IL) based firm moves the production to Mexico and the > > Phillippeans. > > I used to love those little metal boxes with the slide off covers the > > fuses came in. > > harryface > > ( who is trying to post this in 3 Ngs )
All this can be root caused. The federal reserve ( a private ‘bank’) system is the core problem. Massive inflation results in tremendous economic pressure. With the results we see today. be sure to see www.anti-matrix.net – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->You can’t fault a company for trying to stay in business. Your disdain >should be directed to the American consumer NOT the manufactures, they >are the ones that are buying foreign made product in ever increasing >numbers.
Not where it comes from but look at the label, if it is foreign made it is your decision to buy it or not. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Except for automobiles the consumer has very little control over where a > product comes from. > You can’t fault a company for trying to stay in business. Your disdain > should be directed to the American consumer NOT the manufactures, they > are the ones that are buying foreign made product in ever increasing > numbers. Unlike the Japanese who insist on buying Japanese product first > and those of other countries only when a Japanese equivalent is not > available, American look to price. Americans on one hand want high wages > and benefit be see no reason, as you suggest for their own good, to > spend their money on American made products. American companies are in a > no win situation, they must pay the wages demanded or loose their > employees to those that will pay good wages. It amazes me to see so > many Americans in foreign made cars running around with American flags, > made in China, attached. America companies must pass on their labor > cost in their pricing, yet try to compete with foreign products produced > at much much lower wages. Since they can not, they must either move > their manufacturing to those low wage countries or go out of business. > At least by doing so they will still be in the sales business, if not in > the manufacturing business. The American consumer better soon wake up > or we will all be like Honda and Toyota workers, working for a foreign > corporation that offers no union protection and pays no federal income > taxes. Guess who will make up for those taxes. When the American owed > companies are gone, guess what will happen to prices then. Toyota and > Honda are already charging much more for their cars than American > competitors cars. > Paul Miller > > > > > The radiator cooling fan is coming on right after cold start up > and > > > staying > > > > > on in my ‘99 windstar.what gives and how do I fix it?…Mark > > > > > — > > > > find the temp. sensor and pull the wire to it and see if the fan > goes > > > > off?? if so it might be the temp. sensor is telling the computer to > come > > > > on eventhough the engine is cold?? ( a bad temp. sensor will do > this, or > > > > it could be the wire coming from this grounding out, or the comp. > > Was it corrected? or what??? let us know.
RIGHT ON!!! None of the government officials will do ANYTHING to help! Our local representative’s family founded and still owns much of Whirlpool company. He votes for bills and laws that help with cheap imports because his families company gets most everything for their appliances from overseas. We built a new plant a few years ago and the governor promised to be here for the grand opening. When I sent him a letter about helping Michigan companies keep manufacturing jobs he backed out of coming to the opening (but did send a wall plaque, whoopee). If we were an oil company, Bush MIGHT help us out, but other than that there’s no one on our side! All we can do is to try to buy US made stuff whenever we have a choice EVEN IF IT COSTS A LITTLE MORE! Things like wheel bearings and light bulbs are still being made in the US! Buy the TRW or Torrington bearing instead of the no name Chinese one! Buy the General electric taillight bulb instead of the generic bubble packed one! Later, Keith
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am the president of the ONLY remaining company that makes industrial > valves entirely in the US. > Our competitors are getting Titanium valves made in China cheaper than I can > get Cast Iron valves made here. > Of course there is NO comparison between the quality of their stuff compared > to ours. But in most cases the bottom dollar quote wins. Just keep this in > mind when you see news reports about fatal explosions and toxic spills at > chemical plants, power plants, etc. The foreign companies have created odd, > misleading "certification " standards that allow them to make faulty junk, > but still get impressive looking certifications from bogus testing and > inspecting facilities overseas. Basically the foreign companies just make up > their own standards based on how crappy their product is, and then they pay > a bogus company (set up by their foreign government) to give them > certifications based on those self made standards! > Sometimes valves that are going to control things like CHLORINE GAS are NOT > TESTED AT ALL by the manufacturer! > If their standards say that they only test one valve out of every 10,000 > that they make, so be it! > Once in a while I go through these certifications with a customer to show > him what he is REALLY getting from one of these foreign companies, and they > usually crap their pants when they realize that the cheap foreign valves > that they have been putting into their plant don’t meet any of the pressure > or leakage standards set up decades ago by the American standards > associations! > The funny part is that the same steel mills who buy cheaper, foreign valves > instead of mine are going bankrupt because of imported steel. If they would > buy American made products from me, I would buy more American steel from > them, etc. etc.. > Xerox moves it’s manufacturing overseas, but doesn’t want me to move mine > because they want to sell me their copiers here in the US. > It probably won’t all collapse in my lifetime, but I REALLY feel sorry for > my kids! > Maybe I should sell my company to a foreign conglomerate for enough money > that my kids won’t have to worry about anything. > But that sure wouldn’t be the right thing to do! > Sorry for the rant. > Back to restoring my American Made 68 GTO! > Keith > xxxx > Have you talked to the L&I people in your state? > Your Senator? Letter to Bush? > The state of Washington has become a province of Red China. > You can’t buy around Red China in the store anymore. > Even parts of Boeing planes are fabricated in Red China. > The Chinese Communist government calls us " Decadent Bougerous Dogmatic > Capitalistic Pigs " while so far this year the balance of trade is over > 20 billion US dollars in their favor. > I say to hell with the WTO. We need to get our manufacturing footings > back and we need to do it now.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I am the president of the ONLY remaining company that makes industrial > valves entirely in the US. > Our competitors are getting Titanium valves made in China cheaper than I can > get Cast Iron valves made here. > Of course there is NO comparison between the quality of their stuff compared > to ours. But in most cases the bottom dollar quote wins. Just keep this in > mind when you see news reports about fatal explosions and toxic spills at > chemical plants, power plants, etc. The foreign companies have created odd, > misleading "certification " standards that allow them to make faulty junk, > but still get impressive looking certifications from bogus testing and > inspecting facilities overseas. Basically the foreign companies just make up > their own standards based on how crappy their product is, and then they pay > a bogus company (set up by their foreign government) to give them > certifications based on those self made standards! > Sometimes valves that are going to control things like CHLORINE GAS are NOT > TESTED AT ALL by the manufacturer! > If their standards say that they only test one valve out of every 10,000 > that they make, so be it! > Once in a while I go through these certifications with a customer to show > him what he is REALLY getting from one of these foreign companies, and they > usually crap their pants when they realize that the cheap foreign valves > that they have been putting into their plant don’t meet any of the pressure > or leakage standards set up decades ago by the American standards > associations! > The funny part is that the same steel mills who buy cheaper, foreign valves > instead of mine are going bankrupt because of imported steel. If they would > buy American made products from me, I would buy more American steel from > them, etc. etc.. > Xerox moves it’s manufacturing overseas, but doesn’t want me to move mine > because they want to sell me their copiers here in the US. > It probably won’t all collapse in my lifetime, but I REALLY feel sorry for > my kids! > Maybe I should sell my company to a foreign conglomerate for enough money > that my kids won’t have to worry about anything. > But that sure wouldn’t be the right thing to do! > Sorry for the rant. > Back to restoring my American Made 68 GTO! > Keith
xxxx Have you talked to the L&I people in your state? Your Senator? Letter to Bush? The state of Washington has become a province of Red China. You can’t buy around Red China in the store anymore. Even parts of Boeing planes are fabricated in Red China. The Chinese Communist government calls us " Decadent Bougerous Dogmatic Capitalistic Pigs " while so far this year the balance of trade is over 20 billion US dollars in their favor. I say to hell with the WTO. We need to get our manufacturing footings back and we need to do it now.
I agree in part with what you are saying, but what do YOU do for a living? What will you do when YOU are told that you can either work for $1.00 an hour, or your job will be given to someone in Indonesia who will HAPPILY do your job for $1.00 and NO benefits? Of course there are always SOME people like lawyers who will probably not be replaced in the near future by foreign workers. But WHO are they going to have as clients?!?!? Also as far as choosing to buy or not, I went shopping recently for toys for my kids. Being completely disgusted by all of the made in China stickers, I looked for Tinkertoys and Lincoln Logs. Classic AMERICAN toys for 100 years, right? WRONG!!!! Even LINCOLN LOGS are now made in China!!! The problem is that in most cases now you have NO choice! Are you going to have a television, computer , or camera? If so you will HAVE to buy a foreign product! Being in my position as President of a manufacturing company in the Midwest, I see more problems every year. My employees all pay taxes, donate to charities, and have enough free time (because of their good jobs) to volunteer in the community. Instead of my 200 American workers, my foreign competitor has 6 guys in a warehouse receiving and shipping out the foreign stuff. They pay almost NO taxes, and the profit that would go to an American charity, school, or church will go to someone supporting Bin Laden in Pakistan. It’s NOT good! Later, Keith – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The consumer can look at the tag in clothing or the box that the products > comes in. He does not choose where the product is made, but he does choose > whether he buys it or not. > The part that I do not understand is why I should reward people for charging > more. Are the people in Afghanistan or Pakistan or Turkey or Iowa less > worthy than other people around the world to get my business? If there is a > choice between buying equivalent products at the same cost, one made in the > US and the other elsewhere, I will choose the US made one. However, if the > cost is different, I will choose the cheaper one. > Most Nissans, Toyotas and Mazdas sold in the US are made in the US, as well > as many other foreign makes. And parts made in Canada and Mexico count as > being made in the US. The fact is that we no longer have a US economy, but a > world economy. Volvo, Jaguar, Saab, Aston Marton and Mazda are examples of > foreign car makes made by US car companies. > In addition, major components of your computer are made in Asia (like the > disk drives, monitor & keyboard). When people had a choice between a $5000 > PC or a $3500 PC, most people chose the $3500 PC. As the PC prices fell, the > only way to keep them cheap was with foreign parts. > All the best, > Wyle > Brought to you with 100% American-made electrons. > Except for automobiles the consumer has very little control over where a > product comes from.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > You can’t fault a company for trying to stay in business. Your disdain > > should be directed to the American consumer NOT the manufactures, they > > are the ones that are buying foreign made product in ever increasing > > numbers. Unlike the Japanese who insist on buying Japanese product first > > and those of other countries only when a Japanese equivalent is not > > available, American look to price. Americans on one hand want high wages > > and benefit be see no reason, as you suggest for their own good, to > > spend their money on American made products. American companies are in a > > no win situation, they must pay the wages demanded or loose their > > employees to those that will pay good wages. It amazes me to see so > > many Americans in foreign made cars running around with American flags, > > made in China, attached. America companies must pass on their labor > > cost in their pricing, yet try to compete with foreign products produced > > at much much lower wages. Since they can not, they must either move > > their manufacturing to those low wage countries or go out of business. > > At least by doing so they will still be in the sales business, if not in > > the manufacturing business. The American consumer better soon wake up > > or we will all be like Honda and Toyota workers, working for a foreign > > corporation that offers no union protection and pays no federal income > > taxes. Guess who will make up for those taxes. When the American owed > > companies are gone, guess what will happen to prices then. Toyota and > > Honda are already charging much more for their cars than American > > competitors cars. > > Paul Miller > > > > > > The radiator cooling fan is coming on right after cold start up > and > > > > staying > > > > > > on in my ‘99 windstar.what gives and how do I fix it?…Mark > > > > > > — > > > > > find the temp. sensor and pull the wire to it and see if the fan > goes > > > > > off?? if so it might be the temp. sensor is telling the computer > to > come > > > > > on eventhough the engine is cold?? ( a bad temp. sensor will do > this, or > > > > > it could be the wire coming from this grounding out, or the comp. > > > Was it corrected? or what??? let us know.
> The consumer can look at the tag in clothing or the box that the products > comes in. He does not choose where the product is made, but he does choose > whether he buys it or not.
Which means you are choosing to buy very little. In the clothing world very little is made in the U.S. Try buying a U.S. made shoe, unless it is a RED WING ( at least I think there are U.S. made ) or some kind of specialty shoe it is not U.S. made. There is a lot of manufacturing in the U.S., but not of the every day consumer items. > The part that I do not understand is why I should reward people for charging > more. Are the people in Afghanistan or Pakistan or Turkey or Iowa less > worthy than other people around the world to get my business? If there is a > choice between buying equivalent products at the same cost, one made in the > US and the other elsewhere, I will choose the US made one. However, if the > cost is different, I will choose the cheaper one. > Most Nissans, Toyotas and Mazdas sold in the US are made in the US,
You mean assembled in the U.S. > as well > as many other foreign makes. And parts made in Canada and Mexico count as > being made in the US.
Count that as being made in North America. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The fact is that we no longer have a US economy, but a > world economy. Volvo, Jaguar, Saab, Aston Marton and Mazda are examples of > foreign car makes made by US car companies. > In addition, major components of your computer are made in Asia (like the > disk drives, monitor & keyboard). When people had a choice between a $5000 > PC or a $3500 PC, most people chose the $3500 PC. As the PC prices fell, the > only way to keep them cheap was with foreign parts. > All the best, > Wyle > Brought to you with 100% American-made electrons.
Even the replacement sidearm for the Colt 45 is foreign. The Beretta 92 series. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->If the US got in a "real war" and had to make everything in this country, the US >would be in deep guano. K mart and wall mart would be empty. Most of the stuff >they >sell is 90% imported in my estimation. Forget buying a new TV or stereo. Try to >find any made in the US (maybe assembled here with foreign parts). Computers? >not many motherboards made here. Some chip makers do have plants here, but the >bulk of semi >conductors are made overseas. Try to find a US made flat panel display or CRT. >And our military? Were is the steel going to come from for the ships and bombs? >From what i can tell, the US steel industry is close to being in ruins now. >We have paid the price of luxuries and a strong economy. The price is we lost >most >domestic production of products. Consumer and industrial. Is this good for the >country? >time will tell. >BOB > I am the president of the ONLY remaining company that makes industrial > valves entirely in the US. > Our competitors are getting Titanium valves made in China cheaper than I can > get Cast Iron valves made here. > Of course there is NO comparison between the quality of their stuff compared > to ours. But in most cases the bottom dollar quote wins. Just keep this in > mind when you see news reports about fatal explosions and toxic spills at > chemical plants, power plants, etc. The foreign companies have created odd, > misleading "certification " standards that allow them to make faulty junk, > but still get impressive looking certifications from bogus testing and > inspecting facilities overseas. Basically the foreign companies just make up > their own standards based on how crappy their product is, and then they pay > a bogus company (set up by their foreign government) to give them > certifications based on those self made standards! > Sometimes valves that are going to control things like CHLORINE GAS are NOT > TESTED AT ALL by the manufacturer! > If their standards say that they only test one valve out of every 10,000 > that they make, so be it! > Once in a while I go through these certifications with a customer to show > him what he is REALLY getting from one of these foreign companies, and they > usually crap their pants when they realize that the cheap foreign valves > that they have been putting into their plant don’t meet any of the pressure > or leakage standards set up decades ago by the American standards > associations! > The funny part is that the same steel mills who buy cheaper, foreign valves > instead of mine are going bankrupt because of imported steel. If they would > buy American made products from me, I would buy more American steel from > them, etc. etc.. > Xerox moves it’s manufacturing overseas, but doesn’t want me to move mine > because they want to sell me their copiers here in the US. > It probably won’t all collapse in my lifetime, but I REALLY feel sorry for > my kids! > Maybe I should sell my company to a foreign conglomerate for enough money > that my kids won’t have to worry about anything. > But that sure wouldn’t be the right thing to do! > Sorry for the rant. > Back to restoring my American Made 68 GTO! > Keith > > Well I guess that leaves Bussmann. > > > Todays Chicago tribune Business Section read; > > > Electronics maker Littlefuse Inc, will close its 36 year old Centralia > > > (IL) plant over the next 18 months. About 300 jobs will be lost when > > > the Des Plaines (IL) based firm moves the production to Mexico and the > > > Phillippeans. > > > I used to love those little metal boxes with the slide off covers the > > > fuses came in. > > > harryface > > > ( who is trying to post this in 3 Ngs )
The consumer can look at the tag in clothing or the box that the products comes in. He does not choose where the product is made, but he does choose whether he buys it or not. The part that I do not understand is why I should reward people for charging more. Are the people in Afghanistan or Pakistan or Turkey or Iowa less worthy than other people around the world to get my business? If there is a choice between buying equivalent products at the same cost, one made in the US and the other elsewhere, I will choose the US made one. However, if the cost is different, I will choose the cheaper one. Most Nissans, Toyotas and Mazdas sold in the US are made in the US, as well as many other foreign makes. And parts made in Canada and Mexico count as being made in the US. The fact is that we no longer have a US economy, but a world economy. Volvo, Jaguar, Saab, Aston Marton and Mazda are examples of foreign car makes made by US car companies. In addition, major components of your computer are made in Asia (like the disk drives, monitor & keyboard). When people had a choice between a $5000 PC or a $3500 PC, most people chose the $3500 PC. As the PC prices fell, the only way to keep them cheap was with foreign parts. All the best, Wyle Brought to you with 100% American-made electrons.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Except for automobiles the consumer has very little control over where a > product comes from. > You can’t fault a company for trying to stay in business. Your disdain > should be directed to the American consumer NOT the manufactures, they > are the ones that are buying foreign made product in ever increasing > numbers. Unlike the Japanese who insist on buying Japanese product first > and those of other countries only when a Japanese equivalent is not > available, American look to price. Americans on one hand want high wages > and benefit be see no reason, as you suggest for their own good, to > spend their money on American made products. American companies are in a > no win situation, they must pay the wages demanded or loose their > employees to those that will pay good wages. It amazes me to see so > many Americans in foreign made cars running around with American flags, > made in China, attached. America companies must pass on their labor > cost in their pricing, yet try to compete with foreign products produced > at much much lower wages. Since they can not, they must either move > their manufacturing to those low wage countries or go out of business. > At least by doing so they will still be in the sales business, if not in > the manufacturing business. The American consumer better soon wake up > or we will all be like Honda and Toyota workers, working for a foreign > corporation that offers no union protection and pays no federal income > taxes. Guess who will make up for those taxes. When the American owed > companies are gone, guess what will happen to prices then. Toyota and > Honda are already charging much more for their cars than American > competitors cars. > Paul Miller
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > > > The radiator cooling fan is coming on right after cold start up > and > > > staying > > > > > on in my ‘99 windstar.what gives and how do I fix it?…Mark > > > > > — > > > > find the temp. sensor and pull the wire to it and see if the fan > goes > > > > off?? if so it might be the temp. sensor is telling the computer to > come > > > > on eventhough the engine is cold?? ( a bad temp. sensor will do > this, or > > > > it could be the wire coming from this grounding out, or the comp. > > Was it corrected? or what??? let us know.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I don’t understand corporations… if they all move to 3rd world countries, > and fire everyone in the states, when their new cheap laborers are done > building goods and ship them back, everyone is homeless and poor and unable > to buy their goods because their company laid them off… > Todays Chicago tribune Business Section read; > Electronics maker Littlefuse Inc, will close its 36 year old Centralia > (IL) plant over the next 18 months. About 300 jobs will be lost when > the Des Plaines (IL) based firm moves the production to Mexico and the > Phillippeans. > I used to love those little metal boxes with the slide off covers the > fuses came in. > harryface > ( who is trying to post this in 3 Ngs )
Solution is dont buy the product…if enough people would boycott the made in china stuff then they will come back or not sell anything.
Well I guess that leaves Bussmann.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Todays Chicago tribune Business Section read; > Electronics maker Littlefuse Inc, will close its 36 year old Centralia > (IL) plant over the next 18 months. About 300 jobs will be lost when > the Des Plaines (IL) based firm moves the production to Mexico and the > Phillippeans. > I used to love those little metal boxes with the slide off covers the > fuses came in. > harryface > ( who is trying to post this in 3 Ngs )
The loss of manufacturing is just one end of the candle burning. What about massive immigration? I know its not PC, but you must look at the whole picture. www.anti-matrix.net
I am the president of the ONLY remaining company that makes industrial valves entirely in the US. Our competitors are getting Titanium valves made in China cheaper than I can get Cast Iron valves made here. Of course there is NO comparison between the quality of their stuff compared to ours. But in most cases the bottom dollar quote wins. Just keep this in mind when you see news reports about fatal explosions and toxic spills at chemical plants, power plants, etc. The foreign companies have created odd, misleading "certification " standards that allow them to make faulty junk, but still get impressive looking certifications from bogus testing and inspecting facilities overseas. Basically the foreign companies just make up their own standards based on how crappy their product is, and then they pay a bogus company (set up by their foreign government) to give them certifications based on those self made standards! Sometimes valves that are going to control things like CHLORINE GAS are NOT TESTED AT ALL by the manufacturer! If their standards say that they only test one valve out of every 10,000 that they make, so be it! Once in a while I go through these certifications with a customer to show him what he is REALLY getting from one of these foreign companies, and they usually crap their pants when they realize that the cheap foreign valves that they have been putting into their plant don’t meet any of the pressure or leakage standards set up decades ago by the American standards associations! The funny part is that the same steel mills who buy cheaper, foreign valves instead of mine are going bankrupt because of imported steel. If they would buy American made products from me, I would buy more American steel from them, etc. etc.. Xerox moves it’s manufacturing overseas, but doesn’t want me to move mine because they want to sell me their copiers here in the US. It probably won’t all collapse in my lifetime, but I REALLY feel sorry for my kids! Maybe I should sell my company to a foreign conglomerate for enough money that my kids won’t have to worry about anything. But that sure wouldn’t be the right thing to do! Sorry for the rant. Back to restoring my American Made 68 GTO! Keith
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well I guess that leaves Bussmann. > Todays Chicago tribune Business Section read; > Electronics maker Littlefuse Inc, will close its 36 year old Centralia > (IL) plant over the next 18 months. About 300 jobs will be lost when > the Des Plaines (IL) based firm moves the production to Mexico and the > Phillippeans. > I used to love those little metal boxes with the slide off covers the > fuses came in. > harryface > ( who is trying to post this in 3 Ngs )
Except for automobiles the consumer has very little control over where a product comes from. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > You can’t fault a company for trying to stay in business. Your disdain > should be directed to the American consumer NOT the manufactures, they > are the ones that are buying foreign made product in ever increasing > numbers. Unlike the Japanese who insist on buying Japanese product first > and those of other countries only when a Japanese equivalent is not > available, American look to price. Americans on one hand want high wages > and benefit be see no reason, as you suggest for their own good, to > spend their money on American made products. American companies are in a > no win situation, they must pay the wages demanded or loose their > employees to those that will pay good wages. It amazes me to see so > many Americans in foreign made cars running around with American flags, > made in China, attached. America companies must pass on their labor > cost in their pricing, yet try to compete with foreign products produced > at much much lower wages. Since they can not, they must either move > their manufacturing to those low wage countries or go out of business. > At least by doing so they will still be in the sales business, if not in > the manufacturing business. The American consumer better soon wake up > or we will all be like Honda and Toyota workers, working for a foreign > corporation that offers no union protection and pays no federal income > taxes. Guess who will make up for those taxes. When the American owed > companies are gone, guess what will happen to prices then. Toyota and > Honda are already charging much more for their cars than American > competitors cars. > Paul Miller > > > > The radiator cooling fan is coming on right after cold start up and > > staying > > > > on in my ‘99 windstar.what gives and how do I fix it?…Mark > > > > — > > > find the temp. sensor and pull the wire to it and see if the fan goes > > > off?? if so it might be the temp. sensor is telling the computer to come > > > on eventhough the engine is cold?? ( a bad temp. sensor will do this, or > > > it could be the wire coming from this grounding out, or the comp. > Was it corrected? or what??? let us know.
You can’t fault a company for trying to stay in business. Your disdain should be directed to the American consumer NOT the manufactures, they are the ones that are buying foreign made product in ever increasing numbers. Unlike the Japanese who insist on buying Japanese product first and those of other countries only when a Japanese equivalent is not available, American look to price. Americans on one hand want high wages and benefit be see no reason, as you suggest for their own good, to spend their money on American made products. American companies are in a no win situation, they must pay the wages demanded or loose their employees to those that will pay good wages. It amazes me to see so many Americans in foreign made cars running around with American flags, made in China, attached. America companies must pass on their labor cost in their pricing, yet try to compete with foreign products produced at much much lower wages. Since they can not, they must either move their manufacturing to those low wage countries or go out of business. At least by doing so they will still be in the sales business, if not in the manufacturing business. The American consumer better soon wake up or we will all be like Honda and Toyota workers, working for a foreign corporation that offers no union protection and pays no federal income taxes. Guess who will make up for those taxes. When the American owed companies are gone, guess what will happen to prices then. Toyota and Honda are already charging much more for their cars than American competitors cars. Paul Miller – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > The radiator cooling fan is coming on right after cold start up and > staying > > > on in my ‘99 windstar.what gives and how do I fix it?…Mark > > > — > > find the temp. sensor and pull the wire to it and see if the fan goes > > off?? if so it might be the temp. sensor is telling the computer to come > > on eventhough the engine is cold?? ( a bad temp. sensor will do this, or > > it could be the wire coming from this grounding out, or the comp. > Was it corrected? or what??? let us know.
If the US got in a "real war" and had to make everything in this country, the US would be in deep guano. K mart and wall mart would be empty. Most of the stuff they sell is 90% imported in my estimation. Forget buying a new TV or stereo. Try to find any made in the US (maybe assembled here with foreign parts). Computers? not many motherboards made here. Some chip makers do have plants here, but the bulk of semi conductors are made overseas. Try to find a US made flat panel display or CRT. And our military? Were is the steel going to come from for the ships and bombs? From what i can tell, the US steel industry is close to being in ruins now. We have paid the price of luxuries and a strong economy. The price is we lost most domestic production of products. Consumer and industrial. Is this good for the country? time will tell. BOB – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I am the president of the ONLY remaining company that makes industrial > valves entirely in the US. > Our competitors are getting Titanium valves made in China cheaper than I can > get Cast Iron valves made here. > Of course there is NO comparison between the quality of their stuff compared > to ours. But in most cases the bottom dollar quote wins. Just keep this in > mind when you see news reports about fatal explosions and toxic spills at > chemical plants, power plants, etc. The foreign companies have created odd, > misleading "certification " standards that allow them to make faulty junk, > but still get impressive looking certifications from bogus testing and > inspecting facilities overseas. Basically the foreign companies just make up > their own standards based on how crappy their product is, and then they pay > a bogus company (set up by their foreign government) to give them > certifications based on those self made standards! > Sometimes valves that are going to control things like CHLORINE GAS are NOT > TESTED AT ALL by the manufacturer! > If their standards say that they only test one valve out of every 10,000 > that they make, so be it! > Once in a while I go through these certifications with a customer to show > him what he is REALLY getting from one of these foreign companies, and they > usually crap their pants when they realize that the cheap foreign valves > that they have been putting into their plant don’t meet any of the pressure > or leakage standards set up decades ago by the American standards > associations! > The funny part is that the same steel mills who buy cheaper, foreign valves > instead of mine are going bankrupt because of imported steel. If they would > buy American made products from me, I would buy more American steel from > them, etc. etc.. > Xerox moves it’s manufacturing overseas, but doesn’t want me to move mine > because they want to sell me their copiers here in the US. > It probably won’t all collapse in my lifetime, but I REALLY feel sorry for > my kids! > Maybe I should sell my company to a foreign conglomerate for enough money > that my kids won’t have to worry about anything. > But that sure wouldn’t be the right thing to do! > Sorry for the rant. > Back to restoring my American Made 68 GTO! > Keith > Well I guess that leaves Bussmann. > > Todays Chicago tribune Business Section read; > > Electronics maker Littlefuse Inc, will close its 36 year old Centralia > > (IL) plant over the next 18 months. About 300 jobs will be lost when > > the Des Plaines (IL) based firm moves the production to Mexico and the > > Phillippeans. > > I used to love those little metal boxes with the slide off covers the > > fuses came in. > > harryface > > ( who is trying to post this in 3 Ngs )
We could sell our computers for food money. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Organization: Earthlink, Inc. > Newsgroups: alt.autos.pontiac,alt.autos.gm,alt.autos.ford > I don’t understand corporations… if they all move to 3rd world countries, > and fire everyone in the states, when their new cheap laborers are done > building goods and ship them back, everyone is homeless and poor and unable > to buy their goods because their company laid them off… > Todays Chicago tribune Business Section read; > Electronics maker Littlefuse Inc, will close its 36 year old Centralia > (IL) plant over the next 18 months. About 300 jobs will be lost when > the Des Plaines (IL) based firm moves the production to Mexico and the > Phillippeans. > I used to love those little metal boxes with the slide off covers the > fuses came in. > harryface > ( who is trying to post this in 3 Ngs )
Thanks for sharing this, I hadn’t seen it myself. It is not a shock to anyone though, is it? Just another U.S. manufacturer moving production to another country. The citizens of this nation have voted it seems, with their wallets, for low-cost products regardless of the penalty. But the customer who demands that $15 imported brake rotors be installed sees no connection between his wanting a "good deal" and the shrink in U.S. industry. Nor do those who are always looking for the "cheapest" belt, gasket, spark plug, filter, or electronic part. To them, there is no sense of cause-and-effect at all. -Nick
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Todays Chicago tribune Business Section read; > Electronics maker Littlefuse Inc, will close its 36 year old Centralia > (IL) plant over the next 18 months. About 300 jobs will be lost when > the Des Plaines (IL) based firm moves the production to Mexico and the > Phillippeans. > I used to love those little metal boxes with the slide off covers the > fuses came in. > harryface > ( who is trying to post this in 3 Ngs )
Todays Chicago tribune Business Section read; Electronics maker Littlefuse Inc, will close its 36 year old Centralia (IL) plant over the next 18 months. About 300 jobs will be lost when the Des Plaines (IL) based firm moves the production to Mexico and the Phillippeans. I used to love those little metal boxes with the slide off covers the fuses came in. harryface ( who is trying to post this in 3 Ngs )
I don’t understand corporations… if they all move to 3rd world countries, and fire everyone in the states, when their new cheap laborers are done building goods and ship them back, everyone is homeless and poor and unable to buy their goods because their company laid them off…
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Todays Chicago tribune Business Section read; > Electronics maker Littlefuse Inc, will close its 36 year old Centralia > (IL) plant over the next 18 months. About 300 jobs will be lost when > the Des Plaines (IL) based firm moves the production to Mexico and the > Phillippeans. > I used to love those little metal boxes with the slide off covers the > fuses came in. > harryface > ( who is trying to post this in 3 Ngs )
I did take the car in and the drain holes were indeed plugged. The challenge with the A8 is that Audi runs the internal AC evaporator drain into the external engine cowling drain and then ports both under the car. The mechanic had to take the interior apart to access it. He freaked out when he saw that the water had soaked the access port for the electronics, amazingly Audi uses a piece of fiber board. Lucky for me no water got in, he said that all the electronics are routed into this area and if water leaked in it would be a major fix. After he blew out the drain holes the system worked like normal. A little bit of German over engineering but that’s why the car is so much fun to drive. Dale – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I had the same thing with my 93 100CSQ. It was the same problem, the drain >hole in the cowling. I took it to the dealer and they couldn’t find anything >wrong. Waited a while longer and finally decided to look myself. Found it in >10 minutes. Next day, the car died. Turned out the water had been draining >into the computer compartment in the passenger footwell. Now, everything is >corroded and I have a local mechanic redoing the wires in hopes the computer >is still good. >Moral: DON’T WAIT. GET IT FIXED. If your dealer is Leith in Raleigh, NC, >go anywhere else. I ought to sue them. >John > My ‘92 S4 had the same problem, especially after machine-washing it. > When inspecting the AC/ventilator surroundings, I found that the rubber > grommet for draining the compartment had been clogged up.. Plenty of water > surrounding and leaking into the fan and splashing into the car when the fan > was started.. Unclogged, and fixed! > Bjorn :o) >> I’ve a 97 A8 and was giving it a cleaning today when I noticed that >> the floor matts were soaked. Both the driver and passenger side >> bottom matts were completely wet. I had just washed the car but >> everthing was buttoned up tight. >> One other thing I noticed this past week, we’ve had a string of days >> with very hot & humid weather so the AC has been running almost >> constantly. I swear I heard water sloshing around behind the dash >> where the exhaust vents are and even saw a couple of drops fly out of >> the vents when I accelerated and the fan was on high. I thought I >> must be dreaming so I didnt look further – could this be where the >> water is coming from? >> Any ideas appreciated before I take it to the dealer. >> Thanks >> Dale
I’ve a 97 A8 and was giving it a cleaning today when I noticed that the floor matts were soaked. Both the driver and passenger side bottom matts were completely wet. I had just washed the car but everthing was buttoned up tight. One other thing I noticed this past week, we’ve had a string of days with very hot & humid weather so the AC has been running almost constantly. I swear I heard water sloshing around behind the dash where the exhaust vents are and even saw a couple of drops fly out of the vents when I accelerated and the fan was on high. I thought I must be dreaming so I didnt look further – could this be where the water is coming from? Any ideas appreciated before I take it to the dealer. Thanks Dale
Most likely the drain to your air conditioning evaporator is plugged up and the water is draining inside instead of outside the car. If you can get underneath the car, look under the front passenger area footwell for a drainage tube. Gently insert a rigid wire(coat hanger) in the tube and move it up the tube like you would do to snake out a drain in your house. Don’t force the wire or you may break something. If you aren’t confident about doing the repair, take your car to an A/C shop, they see this all the time. Tom
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve a 97 A8 and was giving it a cleaning today when I noticed that > the floor matts were soaked. Both the driver and passenger side > bottom matts were completely wet. I had just washed the car but > everthing was buttoned up tight. > One other thing I noticed this past week, we’ve had a string of days > with very hot & humid weather so the AC has been running almost > constantly. I swear I heard water sloshing around behind the dash > where the exhaust vents are and even saw a couple of drops fly out of > the vents when I accelerated and the fan was on high. I thought I > must be dreaming so I didnt look further – could this be where the > water is coming from? > Any ideas appreciated before I take it to the dealer. > Thanks > Dale
I had the same problem on an A4. I don’t know the A8 but look in the engine compartment at the base of the windscreen. In my case the rubber grommet in the hole where the release cable for the engine compartment goes through the bulkhead was out of position. My rear floor had inches of water in it until I blocked the hole.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve a 97 A8 and was giving it a cleaning today when I noticed that > the floor matts were soaked. Both the driver and passenger side > bottom matts were completely wet. I had just washed the car but > everthing was buttoned up tight. > One other thing I noticed this past week, we’ve had a string of days > with very hot & humid weather so the AC has been running almost > constantly. I swear I heard water sloshing around behind the dash > where the exhaust vents are and even saw a couple of drops fly out of > the vents when I accelerated and the fan was on high. I thought I > must be dreaming so I didnt look further – could this be where the > water is coming from? > Any ideas appreciated before I take it to the dealer. > Thanks > Dale
My ‘92 S4 had the same problem, especially after machine-washing it. When inspecting the AC/ventilator surroundings, I found that the rubber grommet for draining the compartment had been clogged up.. Plenty of water surrounding and leaking into the fan and splashing into the car when the fan was started.. Unclogged, and fixed! Bjorn :o)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve a 97 A8 and was giving it a cleaning today when I noticed that > the floor matts were soaked. Both the driver and passenger side > bottom matts were completely wet. I had just washed the car but > everthing was buttoned up tight. > One other thing I noticed this past week, we’ve had a string of days > with very hot & humid weather so the AC has been running almost > constantly. I swear I heard water sloshing around behind the dash > where the exhaust vents are and even saw a couple of drops fly out of > the vents when I accelerated and the fan was on high. I thought I > must be dreaming so I didnt look further – could this be where the > water is coming from? > Any ideas appreciated before I take it to the dealer. > Thanks > Dale
I had the same thing with my 93 100CSQ. It was the same problem, the drain hole in the cowling. I took it to the dealer and they couldn’t find anything wrong. Waited a while longer and finally decided to look myself. Found it in 10 minutes. Next day, the car died. Turned out the water had been draining into the computer compartment in the passenger footwell. Now, everything is corroded and I have a local mechanic redoing the wires in hopes the computer is still good. Moral: DON’T WAIT. GET IT FIXED. If your dealer is Leith in Raleigh, NC, go anywhere else. I ought to sue them. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > My ‘92 S4 had the same problem, especially after machine-washing it. > When inspecting the AC/ventilator surroundings, I found that the rubber > grommet for draining the compartment had been clogged up.. Plenty of water > surrounding and leaking into the fan and splashing into the car when the fan > was started.. Unclogged, and fixed! > Bjorn :o) > I’ve a 97 A8 and was giving it a cleaning today when I noticed that > the floor matts were soaked. Both the driver and passenger side > bottom matts were completely wet. I had just washed the car but > everthing was buttoned up tight. > One other thing I noticed this past week, we’ve had a string of days > with very hot & humid weather so the AC has been running almost > constantly. I swear I heard water sloshing around behind the dash > where the exhaust vents are and even saw a couple of drops fly out of > the vents when I accelerated and the fan was on high. I thought I > must be dreaming so I didnt look further – could this be where the > water is coming from? > Any ideas appreciated before I take it to the dealer. > Thanks > Dale
i have a 90 quattro 20 v….something is happening to me….how do i fix it? it is commming into the front passager floor….i think it is the ac?? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I had the same thing with my 93 100CSQ. It was the same problem, the drain > hole in the cowling. I took it to the dealer and they couldn’t find anything > wrong. Waited a while longer and finally decided to look myself. Found it in > 10 minutes. Next day, the car died. Turned out the water had been draining > into the computer compartment in the passenger footwell. Now, everything is > corroded and I have a local mechanic redoing the wires in hopes the computer > is still good. > Moral: DON’T WAIT. GET IT FIXED. If your dealer is Leith in Raleigh, NC, > go anywhere else. I ought to sue them. > John > My ‘92 S4 had the same problem, especially after machine-washing it. > When inspecting the AC/ventilator surroundings, I found that the rubber > grommet for draining the compartment had been clogged up.. Plenty of water > surrounding and leaking into the fan and splashing into the car when the fan > was started.. Unclogged, and fixed! > Bjorn :o) >> I’ve a 97 A8 and was giving it a cleaning today when I noticed that >> the floor matts were soaked. Both the driver and passenger side >> bottom matts were completely wet. I had just washed the car but >> everthing was buttoned up tight. >> One other thing I noticed this past week, we’ve had a string of days >> with very hot & humid weather so the AC has been running almost >> constantly. I swear I heard water sloshing around behind the dash >> where the exhaust vents are and even saw a couple of drops fly out of >> the vents when I accelerated and the fan was on high. I thought I >> must be dreaming so I didnt look further – could this be where the >> water is coming from? >> Any ideas appreciated before I take it to the dealer. >> Thanks >> Dale
I had a problem just like that and it turned out to be corrosion build up in the T-Connector for the trailer harness. I had plugged it right into the factory wiring with the plug provided. It had seal manufactured into it, but I guess they were not adequate. I bought a new one and wrapped it in electrical tape to keep water out. If you have one of these pigtails plugged in, I suggest you disconnect it, reconnect your factory wiring without the pigtail and try your lights then. If they work ok, then you know it’s the pigtail. Just a suggestion.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Most likely a bad ground at the tail light. > I agree, maybe not at the tail light itself, but sounds like a bad > ground. I had a similar problem once.
Hey y’all. I’ve been having a problem with my left turn signal since I bought my ‘88 K5 Blazer. It works fine, until I step on the brake. Then it goes solid, and doesn’t light the right brake light. I replaced every friggin’ bulb in the truck, but it’s still happening. Another freaky thing I just found is this: Key out of the ignition, truck completely off; when I step on the brake and turn on the left turn signal, the "check engine" and "brake" lights flash simultaneously. Keep in mind the truck is totally shut off for this. It doesn’t happen with the right signal. The guy before me did some messy wiring for aftermarket add-ons, but as far as I can tell, everything he touched looks ok (sloppy, but not shorting anywhere). The trailer harness works fine for trailer lights, but I haven’t gotten under to see how it interrupts the circuit. I don’t think it’s the problem, though, since the computer controls the check engine light. Anybody every hear of anything like this? How do I fix it, or even find the problem? The tailight/signal circuit doesn’t run through the ECM, does it? BTW, thanks to anyone that gave me help for the u-joint problem I had last weekend. A parts place across the state had the right one. Ratch ‘88 K5 Blazer
> Most likely a bad ground at the tail light.
I agree, maybe not at the tail light itself, but sounds like a bad ground. I had a similar problem once.
Most likely a bad ground at the tail light. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hey y’all. >I’ve been having a problem with my left turn signal since I bought my ‘88 K5 >Blazer. It works fine, until I step on the brake. Then it goes solid, and >doesn’t light the right brake light. I replaced every friggin’ bulb in the >truck, but it’s still happening. Another freaky thing I just found is this: >Key out of the ignition, truck completely off; when I step on the brake and >turn on the left turn signal, the "check engine" and "brake" lights flash >simultaneously. Keep in mind the truck is totally shut off for this. It >doesn’t happen with the right signal. The guy before me did some messy >wiring for aftermarket add-ons, but as far as I can tell, everything he >touched looks ok (sloppy, but not shorting anywhere). The trailer harness >works fine for trailer lights, but I haven’t gotten under to see how it >interrupts the circuit. I don’t think it’s the problem, though, since the >computer controls the check engine light. >Anybody every hear of anything like this? How do I fix it, or even find the >problem? The tailight/signal circuit doesn’t run through the ECM, does it? >BTW, thanks to anyone that gave me help for the u-joint problem I had last >weekend. A parts place across the state had the right one. >Ratch >’88 K5 Blazer
check out http://members.tripod.com/~WHO_03
Is there a any check engine or similar light on or do you know how to access the trouble codes? I’m more familar with GM, I had a Cavilier with the problem you describe and the check engine light was on. The trouble code suggested the temperature sensor amazing as it seems it was correct. Seems the computer thought it was over heating so increased the idle to circulate the coolant faster. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->My 1988 dodge daytona has a problem with idling. It does fine while >cold, but once it warms up it idles around 2000 rpm. This is about >1000 rpm to fast. It has an automatic idle motor, but what determines >the setpoint? And how do I fix it? Any help would be appreciated. >thanks. > Joe, > Check/replace the Throttle Position Sensor and all vacuum hoses. Let > us know after that if you still have the problem… > -==*>Ray<*==- > P.S. I’ve got an 88 Daytona 2.2l turbo 5spd myself. After owning it for > seven months (to be sure it was "properly" broken in) I let my wife drive it. > Now she wants to drive it ALL the time! > In the grander scheme of things, the > historical value of what we have done > here is nil. – proverb
My 1988 dodge daytona has a problem with idling. It does fine while cold, but once it warms up it idles around 2000 rpm. This is about 1000 rpm to fast. It has an automatic idle motor, but what determines the setpoint? And how do I fix it? Any help would be appreciated. thanks.
>My 1988 dodge daytona has a problem with idling. It does fine while >cold, but once it warms up it idles around 2000 rpm. This is about >1000 rpm to fast. It has an automatic idle motor, but what determines >the setpoint? And how do I fix it? Any help would be appreciated. >thanks.
Joe, Check/replace the Throttle Position Sensor and all vacuum hoses. Let us know after that if you still have the problem… -==*>Ray<*==- P.S. I’ve got an 88 Daytona 2.2l turbo 5spd myself. After owning it for seven months (to be sure it was "properly" broken in) I let my wife drive it. Now she wants to drive it ALL the time! In the grander scheme of things, the historical value of what we have done here is nil. – proverb
Hi. I have a 1987 Pontiac Grand Am. Recently my radio was stolen (bummer), and ever since the on board computer has said that the Rear and Front Lamps are out. BUT, the headlights work fine, as do the brake lights. The only thing that doesn’t work is the dashboard lights, which are dead. How do I fix the dash light? Will this fix the computer message? thanks, Joseph Sherman UCLA Dept of Sociology
the radio illumination was part of the dash lighting circuit…find the schematic of the radio connector and use a wire jumper to get the the dash lights back on. I bet this will fix message too. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi. I have a 1987 Pontiac Grand Am. Recently my radio was stolen >(bummer), and ever since the on board computer has said that the Rear >and Front Lamps are out. BUT, the headlights work fine, as do the >brake lights. The only thing that doesn’t work is the dashboard >lights, which are dead. How do I fix the dash light? Will this fix >the computer message? thanks, >Joseph Sherman >UCLA Dept of Sociology
-> Everybody deals with fear differently. Whether its walking down a -> steep descent (something I rarely do). I do notice that fear can -> definitely hinder your riding. Crashing is part of mountain biking. -> If you aren’t crashing you are playing it safe and that is not what -> mountain biking is about. I am not talking about riding out of -> control or taking ridiculous risks. I am talking about pushing the -> turn a little faster, riding over things you don’t think you can. -> Staying clipped in a little longer to make it up a climb. All of -> these things involve risk. If you never take the chance you will -> never get mountain biking. Please don’t be so arrogant as to define *your* version of the sport as to be "what MTB’ing is all about". My version of the sport involves long rides alone into relatively wild and often fairly lonely country. I try very hard not to crash at all on such rides because if I break something its a heck of a long walk home. Yeah, on shorter hour-long roads close to home I may crash and burn every once in a while, but to my way of thinking "if you’ve never been deep in the woods alone you will never get mountain biking". So each of us "gets" mountain biking in our own way, eh? – Nick — Nick Wilde Dept. of Computer Science (406) 243-4975 Missoula, MT 59812-1008 http://ftp.cs.umt.edu/CS/FAC/wilde/wildepages.html
> > The axiom about getting right back on the horse (steel horse in > this > >case) after a fall may be true but is often easier said than done. I
Everybody deals with fear differently. Whether its walking down a steep descent (something I rarely do). I do notice that fear can definitely hinder your riding. Crashing is part of mountain biking. If you aren’t crashing you are playing it safe and that is not what mountain biking is about. I am not talking about riding out of control or taking ridiculous risks. I am talking about pushing the turn a little faster, riding over things you don’t think you can. Staying clipped in a little longer to make it up a climb. All of these things involve risk. If you never take the chance you will never get mountain biking. The hard crashes where injury occurs can be unnerving but you have to accept that you will crash and congratulate yourself for surviving to ride another day. Steve in AUstin
> Three years ago, I tried grabbing a shop tag from my spokes, at a fairly high > speed (17-20mph). By accident, I also grabbed a handfull of spokes, and my arm > went with them, around, and back through the fork (up to my elbow). Can you > say endo? I was pretty fucked up for the next week, and I still have scars all > over myself. Now Im afraid to LOOK at my spokes while they are spinning!
ROTFL! Sorry to laugh at your misfortune, but this one had me in stitches when I read it. The folks in the office think I’m mad. Reminds me of a time, some years ago, when a friend was putting a new chain on his BMX. He’d fitted it and was testing if it was OK by spinning the pedal round (bike upside down BTW). He put his finger under the chain to check the tension and his finger got caught and went round between the front chainring and the chain. I remember laughing at that as well. CYa Vince —
>Greetings, > Yes… I’m back with yet another topic that does not fall into the >category of "which clips to buy" or "how do I fix my…". This time >lets talk about fear… oooo! > The axiom about getting right back on the horse (steel horse in >this case . . .
After a crash some months ago, I found I had specific fear — I *still* can’t bring myself to ride across the stream I dumped in. I do however, scream down hills, wail around corners and cross *other* streams without hesitation. Go figure. Mark
>After a crash some months ago, I found I had specific fear — I *still* >can’t bring myself to ride across the stream I dumped in. I do however, >scream down hills, wail around corners and cross *other* streams without >hesitation.
Three years ago, I tried grabbing a shop tag from my spokes, at a fairly high speed (17-20mph). By accident, I also grabbed a handfull of spokes, and my arm went with them, around, and back through the fork (up to my elbow). Can you say endo? I was pretty fucked up for the next week, and I still have scars all over myself. Now Im afraid to LOOK at my spokes while they are spinning!
The way I see it is: You cannot be careful mountain biking. Just like it is impossible to skydive cautiously. Mind you it doesnt mean you have to be stupid. But what do I know, I visited the hospital (again) today and my bike is in no-go-nowhere-hangin-in-the-shop land until better days. – __ Dave Dean (_)/ _. Department of Physiology /<._ / (_) Faculty of Medicine _-> (_)/
> The axiom about getting right back on the horse (steel horse in this >case) after a fall may be true but is often easier said than done. I >think one’s short term memory acts as a governor, if you will, >attempting to limit one’s aggressiveness through fear – at least for a >while. Once the memory of the pain and suffering from the last crash >fades, one tends to become more aggressive again. > > I piled it up descending an easy downhill that ended up throwing me >over the front and planting my face, upper body and left knee into a >nice, sharply graveled fireroad. The cash was caused by just being >careless. Needless to say I’m now sporting a small chin scare and a >major knee scare – luckly nothing broke. The next ride (about a week >later) was un-nerving. It felt like I was unable to control the bike. >The bike had passed a full inspection before the ride so there was >nothing obvoiusly wrong with the bike. I kept feeling like the bike >would slide out from under me at every turn. My buddies would be all >out downhill and I’d be carefully slowing before the turns and round >the corners gingerly. > >Anyone have any account of beating the fear factor? A shor do! I crashed about a month ago and got wounded EXACTLY like you did, except that I hurt my RIGHT knee. However, I crashed because I rounded a downhill, off-camber, high-speed turn at about 25-30 MPH, only to be confronted with a recent addition to the trail: a 1-foot-deep, 2-foot wide washout (from the heavy California rains this year) across almost the entire trail. Only a little space was left on the inside of the turn. I was too fast, too late to make it and did the ‘ol face-plant. My helmet got dented on the front, but protected my skull. I ended up with three stitches inside my lower lip, lots of scrapes on my lower face, nose and jaw, right knee, shoulders, chest and arm, and a nurse who took pleasure in scrubbing out the massive road-rashes with a stiff-bristled brush! On the 1-hour ride back to my car (I was absolutely alone… it was a weekday in a remote park, I was way out in the back section) I hit 43 MPH!!! I was so angry I was spitting… blood no less! I knew it was my own fault, but the anger kept me going, plus I wanted to get to a hospital as soon as possible. I tend to be a "press-on-regardless" kind of guy, even though I know that this may not always be good. Interestingly, I’ve chosen to ride mellower trails since then! I’m not intimidated, just sensible! When one rides alone one needs to exercise more caution. __ Dennis S Pedersen On-line portfolio on World Wide Web: http://www.rahul.net/dennisp/
>Anyone have any account of beating the fear factor? > Thanx, > _Marc
I had a similar experience last year, and found that the only thing that helped me to regain my confidence was to buy some protection. I bought some knee and shin, and elbow guards from Toga. I feel much less fear on the downhill knowing that I have some padding between me and the rocks!
> Yes… I’m back with yet another topic that does not fall into the >category of "which clips to buy" or "how do I fix my…". This time >lets talk about fear… oooo!
Fear? What’s that? 
jim frost — http://www.std.com/homepages/jimf
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Greetings, > Yes… I’m back with yet another topic that does not fall into the >category of "which clips to buy" or "how do I fix my…". This time >lets talk about fear… oooo! > The axiom about getting right back on the horse (steel horse in this >case) after a fall may be true but is often easier said than done. I >think one’s short term memory acts as a governor, if you will, >attempting to limit one’s aggressiveness through fear – at least for a >while. Once the memory of the pain and suffering from the last crash >fades, one tends to become more aggressive again. > I piled it up… > [clip war story] > …I think I’m >still riding more cautiously than before but my confidence is >improving. >Fear can be a good thing if it is managed well. Unfortunately, fear >management is something we all have to discover for ourselves. Fear >is as limiting is performance as hardware you ride or the shape your >in. >Anyone have any account of beating the fear factor?
I don’t know if I can say it’s totally beaten, but… I broke a collarbone last December. I’ve had lots injuries since I got serious about offroading, but that was the most serious. It happened at a very bad time, two weeks before final exams. Not only was it really painful, but it made me have thoughts about maturity, responsibility, etc (icky). The next time I did any real offroad was Spring Break in Moab (March) and I was sporting a brand-new pair of 737 clipless. Can you say "Nervous Nellie"? I fought the hesitation bogeyman for months. I would come up onto an obstacle or technical section and just stop, almost involuntarily. I was embarrassed when riding with pals. I spent more than a week riding around Flagstaff, AZ in May. There is some really techy stuff around there. I was still really struggling with my confidence at that time. I think I remember posting about it. Just in the last weeks, mostly riding stuff that’s around here, I have gotten lots of my confidence back. There are some really harrowing pieces of singletrack right on the west side of Ft. Collins. I ride them a few times a week. Early in the summer, when they first dried up, there were lots of sections that I just pushed my bike through. One short steep descent has a nasty new gullie right down the middle, which had me freaked. Sometime about a month ago, I rode up on that gullie section and then just stayed on the bike. I smiled after I rode through it without landing on my head. A half mile or so later there is a series of stair steps into loose rock that had been a weenie-walk for me–but this time I rode it. When I came off that singletrack that day I stopped and said to myself, "I have my confidence back" If you are a rational human being, fear will stop you from doing stuff that got you into trouble before. Don’t beat yourself up for it (unless you make your living by beating up others on your bike . Give your mind a chance to feel good about the stuff you are doing. Don’t force yourself to do stuff that scares you–you’ll just do it with hesitation, which is dangerous. Try to relax when you are out there, and be patient with your own reluctance. It may help to ride alone for a while (or with someone who is a Nervous Nellie . Peer pressure probably won’t help you much when you are feeling mortal. >Editorial: Are a lot of the "how do I fix…" questions better >addressed in rec.bicycles.tech. Its getting harder and harder to weed >through the techno stuff and get riding stuff. Accounts of trails, >how to climb, how to descend, how not to crash, etc. are what I >thought this group was about… am I in the wrong place?
No, you are in the right place. I agree that there is lots of stuff posted to this group that isn’t really about offroading. It doesn’t seem to help to harp on it, even when more than half of posts really belong in tech and .marketplace. Tom Purvis M.S. Candidate, Computer Information Systems Colorado State University, Fort Collins, Colorado
Greetings, Yes… I’m back with yet another topic that does not fall into the category of "which clips to buy" or "how do I fix my…". This time lets talk about fear… oooo! The axiom about getting right back on the horse (steel horse in this case) after a fall may be true but is often easier said than done. I think one’s short term memory acts as a governor, if you will, attempting to limit one’s aggressiveness through fear – at least for a while. Once the memory of the pain and suffering from the last crash fades, one tends to become more aggressive again. I piled it up descending an easy downhill that ended up throwing me over the front and planting my face, upper body and left knee into a nice, sharply graveled fireroad. The cash was caused by just being careless. Needless to say I’m now sporting a small chin scare and a major knee scare – luckly nothing broke. The next ride (about a week later) was un-nerving. It felt like I was unable to control the bike. The bike had passed a full inspection before the ride so there was nothing obvoiusly wrong with the bike. I kept feeling like the bike would slide out from under me at every turn. My buddies would be all out downhill and I’d be carefully slowing before the turns and round the corners gingerly. I took a number of rides before a got comfortable enough with the bike to start getting in good rides. The big change came when I changed the tires. I think the effect was mostly psychological but I could tell the change made a big difference in my confidence. I think I’m still riding more cautiously than before but my confidence is improving. Fear can be a good thing if it is managed well. Unfortunately, fear management is something we all have to discover for ourselves. Fear is as limiting is performance as hardware you ride or the shape your in. Anyone have any account of beating the fear factor? Thanx, _Marc Editorial: Are a lot of the "how do I fix…" questions better addressed in rec.bicycles.tech. Its getting harder and harder to weed through the techno stuff and get riding stuff. Accounts of trails, how to climb, how to descend, how not to crash, etc. are what I thought this group was about… am I in the wrong place? Marc E. Strohwig Opinion? Mine, mine, mine!! System Architect SEI SIG Compuserve: 70613.502 FAX: (510) 645-3096